I would like to respectfully respond to Kenneth Judkins’ “respectful” presentation of his complaints against the Source’s H. Bruce Miller. Mr. Judkins does not “believe” Obama was born in Hawaii because he claims the President presented a certificate of live birth and not a birth certificate. He advised all of us to examine our birth certificates and lo and behold mine says “certificate of live birth.” Therefore, according to Mr. Judkins, I have lived for seventy years without realizing I am not a U.S. citizen, even though my certificate of live birth documents my being born in the state of Montana, which, by the way, joined the Union sixty years before Hawaii did.
Mr. Judkins, what you “believe” is in no way related to fact. Anyone can believe anything because it is opinion. Facts are empirical. Some people “believe” the earth is flat, but that doesn’t make it so. By now surely you have seen, read or checked the various websites and myriad other sources that have authenticated Obama’s Hawaiian birth unless you have no access to the outside media world and have been living under a rock.
As for the horrible things Obama is up to that are undermining our Constitution and leading the country to perdition, you cite the various Czars he has appointed and relocating (then reversed the relocation) of the census from commerce to the White House. Alors!! Man the barricades!!! Why couldn’t he be a normal president like Bush who ginned up a war under fraudulent pretenses that has, to date, killed hundreds of thousands, cost trillions and left the U.S. Economy on the brink of a Depression. And the Czars and the census have outraged you? You have too much time on your hands. I respectfully suggest you and your wife Cassandra sit down in a quiet corner, cross your legs and contemplate your navels before you have a stroke.
-R.T.Tihista, Bend
This article appears in Aug 27 – Sep 2, 2009.
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Mr. Tahista,
In fact, if you care to use any, the Czars are unconstitutional regardless of which President appoints them, and have no oversight from the Congress, or the Senate.
The census is still under the control of the White House, and for the first time in the history of the census the question as to whether, or not, one is here legally will not be asked.
The Iraq war did not cost “trillions”. You must be thinking of Obama, and his programs. In fact, medicare, medicaid, and the housing crisis (all started by Democrats), plus the other social programs which require additional spending each year, is what brought us to the “brink” of a depression, or recession (no one knows for sure}.
Next, does Montana allow one who was born outside the United States to obtain a “certificate of birth”, or does it require that you be born in Montana? Secondly, is the “certificate of live birth” to which you refer one that has the name, and signature, of the attending physician, midwife, or some other health authority on it? Does Montana have two forms? The short one you may have, and a long form?
Can you cite a website that has this information on it for Obama?
Yes Mr. Tahista, some people would rather believe the world is flat then question their authority figures. And, like you, they drink a lot of kool aid.
Oh, it was only a matter of time before the “kool aid” thing came up… next will be the “tin-foil hat” thing and the “light up your bong” thing. Just for a change, Kennybunkport Man, consider arguing against ACTUAL points made by ACTUAL people on the stream… not the imaginary monsters drummed into your little brain by Hannity, Coulter et al.
Ken,
The Iraq and Afghanistan wars are coming up on $900 billion, not counting the cost to replenish everything afterwards. Granted, this isn’t trillions, but it isn’t pennies. I linked to a foxnews site, so you can’t complain too much.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/12/afghan-war-likely-absorb-potential-savings-withdrawal-iraq-analysts-say/
Obama’s citizenship has been proven time and time again. If you have a problem with what Hawaii’s official policy is, you have to blame the state and not Obama. He can’t force them to break their own policies/procedures/laws…I can just imagine what you guys would say then.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
Here is a link from Time magazine that says the White House has not proposed having the director of the Census reporting directly to them. He will continue to report DIRECTLY to the Commerce Department.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1879667,00.html
Appointing Czars isn’t unconstitutional. It is delegating authority.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25129.html
Calmdownken says:
Ken,
The Iraq and Afghanistan wars are coming up on $900 billion, not counting the cost to replenish everything afterwards. Granted, this isn’t trillions, but it isn’t pennies. I linked to a foxnews site, so you can’t complain too much.”
Still was not a large factor in the economic crisis we face today.
“Obama’s citizenship has been proven time and time again. If you have a problem with what Hawaii’s official policy is, you have to blame the state and not Obama. He can’t force them to break their own policies/procedures/laws…I can just imagine what you guys would say then.”
Then, of course, you know the name of the hospital; the doctor, midwife, whatever; time of birth; length, and weight, at birth; etc., as required under Hawaiian law, right?
Obama can obtain a copy of the original long form for $15.00 under Hawaiian law. Instead he has spent a million dollars, or so, keeping it hidden.
“Appointing Czars isn’t unconstitutional. It is delegating authority.”
Here is another opinion on the subject. By what Constitutional authority does Obama have to appoint people with more authority then a cabinet member without the advise, and consent, of the Senate? In the past Presidents have appointed czar’s for the purpose of giving advise, not making policy.
http://www.infowars.com/senior-democrat-says-obamas-czars-unconstitutional/
Dear Krazy Ken
What is your plan for dealing with Obamabirth?
What are your suggestions vis a vis Medicare?
Large factor in the current economic crisis: Bush’s stupidity
Please define Classical Liberal, elitist, “prove” – once the terms are nailed down debate can begin in earnest.
What, apart from whining, do you propose to do about Czars
Whining Steerpike says:
Dear Krazy Ken
What is your plan for dealing with Obamabirth?”
Don’t have one, and have not the power to do anything. Democrrats are in control, you know, the ones that howled when a blogger started a rumor that Bush said the Constitution is a “G_dD__n piece of paper”, and are now proving that it is true when applied to Democrats.
“What are your suggestions vis a vis Medicare?”
One could suggest prosecuting, and retrieving the money lost, fraud. Course, Waxman, and Conyers, are more interested in prosecuitng Bush/Cheney then in real criminals.
“Large factor in the current economic crisis: Bush’s stupidity”
While I agree that Bush is not the brightest bulb in the box, one must admit that the Dems did nothing in the two years they were in control. Afterall, it is the Congress that controls the purse, not the President. You people bitch, and whine, about Bush increasing the deficit, and the national debt, yet think nothing of the additional 9 trillion, about 4 times the amount of Bush, that will be added under Obama, and the Democrats.
“Please define Classical Liberal, elitist, “prove” – once the terms are nailed down debate can begin in earnest.”
Already have, have told you where, and you still demand what has already been given. Your not interested in honest “debate”, and you are not capable of doing so just as your buddies shortass, and cramer, are not.
“What, apart from whining, do you propose to do about Czars”
Again, it is your party, and the one you elected President, that have the power. If you want to allow the Constitution to be thwarted then so be it.
Woodrow Wilson said in 1917:
“The concentration of power is what always precedes the destruction of human liberties”
Obviously the Democrats are proving that to be true.
To quote factcheck.org:
“the Hawaii Department of Health’s birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate,” and “their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department”
I find it weird that you are pushing for the Federal Governement (President) to force a state to do something that it doesn’t do. I would have figured you for a state’s rights kind of guy.
“I find it weird that you are pushing for the Federal Governement (President) to force a state to do something that it doesn’t do. I would have figured you for a state’s rights kind of guy”
Yeah, well’n yuh figured wrong Calmdownken, an’ I ain’t gonna calm down, now while there’s real or imagined Lib’ril Conspiracies out there for me to boldly fight against!!! I beat’m all, all’f’em, bruuuuhahahahaha! There were no match for me… I am Supreme (or at least one of THE SUPREMES).
Krazy Ken….
“What are your suggestions vis a vis Medicare?”
“One could suggest prosecuting, and retrieving the money lost, fraud. Course, Waxman, and Conyers, are more interested in prosecuitng Bush/Cheney then in real criminals”
“What are your suggestions vis a vis Medicare?” means what do you propose all those old people do for healthcare? Where should they go? How should they pay for the doc in your Fourth Reich?
Remember, you’ll be old sometime yourself!!!
Krazy Kenniwick Ken said:
“”The concentration of power is what always precedes the destruction of human liberties”
Obviously the Democrats are proving that to be true”
Naw… the Bush/Cheney Junta did all that years ago… Haw, haw, haw!
I also was compelled to check the ‘birth certificates’ of our family. FYI, Arizona = Certificate of Live Birth, Colorado = Certificate of Vital Record, Oregon = Certificate of Live Birth.
Calmdownken says:
To quote factcheck.org:
“the Hawaii Department of Health’s birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate,” and “their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department”
I find it weird that you are pushing for the Federal Governement (President) to force a state to do something that it doesn’t do. I would have figured you for a state’s rights kind of guy.”
To quote Hawaiian Law:
[§338-14.3] Verification in lieu of a certified copy. (a) Subject to the requirements of section 338-18, the department of health, upon request, shall furnish to any applicant, in lieu of the issuance of a certified copy, a verification of the existence of a certificate and any other information that the applicant provides to be verified relating to the vital event that pertains to the certificate.
(b) A verification shall be considered for all purposes certification that the vital event did occur and that the facts of the event are as stated by the applicant.
(c) Verification may be made in written, electronic, or other form approved by the director of health.
(d) The fee for a verification in lieu of a certified copy shall be one half of the fee established in section 338-14.5 for the first certified copy of a certificate issued.
(e) Fees received for verifications in lieu of certified copies shall be remitted, and one half of the fee shall be deposited to the credit of the vital statistics improvement special fund in section 338-14.6 and the remainder of the fee shall be deposited to the credit of the state general fund. [L 2001, c 246, §1]
Notice that it says “in lieu of a certified copy”, and “verification of the existence of”. Then there is this part of Hawaiian Law:
§338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.
(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.
(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]
You can also go read sections of Hawaiian Law to see what is required to be put on the BIRTH CERTIFICATE.
That is why FactCheck is such a fraud, and I don’t waste my time on such things. I actually go look at the law, or other evidence. I would suggest you do the same.
JB says:
I also was compelled to check the ‘birth certificates’ of our family. FYI, Arizona = Certificate of Live Birth, Colorado = Certificate of Vital Record, Oregon = Certificate of Live Birth.”
Did you bother to call, and ask if there was a long form birth certificate on file?
I have both from the State of Minnesota. The long form, and the short form.
Pooper says:
Krazy Kenniwick Ken said:
Naw… the Bush/Cheney Junta did all that years ago… Haw, haw, haw!”
I’d ask that you try to prove that, however, since you don’t know what “prove” means I will disregard your ignorance.
Ken,
You selectively edit worse than Bill-O. I like how you flipped the order of the Hawaiian statutes. If you would read them in order, you would see that they first describe things about certified copies and THEN basically say that Hawaii may issue the verification in lieu of the certified copy. See how 14 comes AFTER 13? You also might want to re-read 338-14.3-b…slowly. Now to Quote the Honolulu Adviser:
“Hawai’i’s disclosure law (Hawai’i Revised Statutes 338-18) states that “it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part on any such record … ”
The law further states that the Health Department “shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record.”
Those who have “direct and tangible interest” are generally limited to the person named in the record, the spouse, parent, descendant, or personal representative, or by someone who is involved in marital, parental or death litigation involving the named person’s vital record or other legal reason established by a court order, and various official agency or organization representatives, including the state director of health, according to the law.”
The article then reminds us that the TWO newspaper announcements of his birth could not have been placed by the family. The conspiracy grows…
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20090728/NEWS01/907280345/Hawaii+officials+confirm+Obama's+original+birth+certificate+still+exists
F’course I know what “prove” means: I just asked YOU to define what YOU mean by it… reason? Coz you have weird “definitions” of many common words. HAW, HAW, HAW!!!
So, what do you intend to DO about the Obamacert apart from whining like the Coprophagous Conservative you are. Whine, moan, whine, moan, they didn’t REALLY win the election, they cheated by gittin a blackish guy who slid out of a vagina that didn’t happen to be in the US at the time, boo hoo, moaney, groaney…..
Dear Calmdownken, thank you for producing “the facts” of the Obamacert… but it will never make Krazy Ken Kalm Down. He’s gruff, and he’s ruff, and he’s woof, woof, and he’s angwy and there’s no way anyone’sever gonna beat him in arguments anymore coz school was sucha chore and he had a hard time in college too, boo hoo, whine, and he’s gonna win, win, WIN, no matter what
And you’re avoiding my questions as usual Krazy Kennibunkport Ken from Kenya!!!
“What are your suggestions vis a vis Medicare?” means what do you propose all those old people do for healthcare? Where should they go? How should they pay for the doc in your Fourth Reich?”
JB says:
I also was compelled to check the ‘birth certificates’ of our family. FYI, Arizona = Certificate of Live Birth, Colorado = Certificate of Vital Record, Oregon = Certificate of Live Birth.”
Now you have me curious. Just what information is on an Oregon, Colorado, or the Montana one referred to earlier? Is thehospital name, doctors name, parents name, time of birth, weight, length, color of hair, eyes, whatever, on that certificate, along with the doctors signature?
Since that information is required on certificates of birth, plus whether the baby was born alive, or dead, I would think there is one with that info somewhere.
Obama’s Certificate of Birth does not have it, and the State of Hawaii has confirmed there is one that does. However, Obama has to request it since it is not available to the general public.
Calmdownken , August 27, 2009
Ken,
You selectively edit worse than Bill-O. I like how you flipped the order of the Hawaiian statutes. If you would read them in order, you would see that they first describe things about certified copies and THEN basically say that Hawaii may issue the verification in lieu of the certified copy. See how 14 comes AFTER 13? You also might want to re-read 338-14.3-b.”
The order in which a law is presented has no bearing on the effect of the law. Ask any lawyer. And “editing” would indicate I removed something from the article, or changed something, in the item posted. I removed, nor changed, a word.
Secondly, it is factcheck’s contention that the Hawaiian form had no place on it to request the long form. This is BS since it does not prevent the party from requesting a long form in a separate manner.
Here is the law, again:
(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:
(1) The registrant;”
Now, tell me Obama is NOT the registrant.
(2) The spouse of the registrant;
(3) A parent of the registrant;
(4) A descendant of the registrant;
(5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant;
(6) A legal guardian of the registrant;
(7) A person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;
(8) A personal representative of the registrant's estate;
(9) A person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction;
(10) Adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and who need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child's natural or legal parents;
(11) A person who needs to determine the marital status of a former spouse in order to determine the payment of alimony;
(12) A person who needs to determine the death of a nonrelated co-owner of property purchased under a joint tenancy agreement; and
(13) A person who needs a death certificate for the determination of payments under a credit insurance policy.
All of your contentions are just what they appear to be, BS. And that is the problem with most leftwingers, if not all. You want to honor the law,, or the Constitution, only when you seem to be able to benefit from it, or when it is convenient for you to do so.
There is nothing in the law that would prevent Obama from obtaining a copy of the original. Instead he chose to hire lawyers to prevent the record from being presented. The question is, why?
As to the birth announcements, this again is bogus. His grandmother was living in Honolulu at the time, and for whatever reason, maybe for the simple fact of insuring his citizenship since his mother was not in the country, or Hawaii, she could have posted the announcements. Doesn’t matter though. All that matters is that Obama will not release any records, his college records, his medical records, nothing, that might show he was not born in the US, or is a natural born citizen.
Ken,
Now you are selectively reading. Please tell me how you know that his grandmother could have posted the announcement. The state spokesperson stated in the article that I posted, “Such vital statistics, however, were not sent to the newspapers by the general public but by the Health Department, which received the information directly from hospitals, Okubo said.” You said this is bogus. Please explain.
The order of the statutes is important. Exceptions to the rule come after the rule so that the reader can make logical conclusions. You posted them backward for whatever reason. Even if (maybe he has) Obama has requested the original, Hawaii is the party that decides what he gets. They have decided that their policy is to give verification paperwork in lieu of certified copies. Take it up with Hawaii.
You can edit by placing items out of order or in a different order than they originally appear. That is what you did.
How does one request something using something other than the official requesting form? A nice letter? Try that with the DMV or State Farm and see how far you get. Heck, try to become an NRA member and not use their submission forms. You use the forms they provide or you don’t get their services.
You got me on the Constitution and law. Thanks for telling me my problems. Gettin’ flustered and resorting to broad attacks on “most leftwingers, if not all” I see. That didn’t take long.
Calmdownken says:
Ken,
Now you are selectively reading. Please tell me how you know that his grandmother could have posted the announcement. The state spokesperson stated in the article that I posted, “Such vital statistics, however, were not sent to the newspapers by the general public but by the Health Department, which received the information directly from hospitals, Okubo said.” You said this is bogus. Please explain.”
The article states, which I assumed you read, and just CP’d what you wanted others to see, is that a separate section of the paper was used for family announcements. The fact is that no one has done any research as to who notified the paper. What you have posted is the opinion of a State worker. No one knows what the policies of the paper were 48 years ago, or what the Health Dep’t reported, or not, or at least none of that information is contained in your article.
However, as I stated earlier it is irrelevant to the question at hand.
“The order of the statutes is important. Exceptions to the rule come after the rule so that the reader can make logical conclusions. You posted them backward for whatever reason. Even if (maybe he has) Obama has requested the original, Hawaii is the party that decides what he gets. They have decided that their policy is to give verification paperwork in lieu of certified copies. Take it up with Hawaii.”
Wrong again. I posted the entire statute as written in Hawaiian Statutes, sec. 338-14.3 first. That statute deals specifically with a certificate in lieu of the original, or a certified copy of the original. That is the premise on which you were basing your argument. However, Statute 338-13 deals with the obtaining of the original certificate which you claim Obama does not have access to.
“How does one request something using something other than the official requesting form? A nice letter? Try that with the DMV or State Farm and see how far you get. Heck, try to become an NRA member and not use their submission forms. You use the forms they provide or you don’t get their services.”
In fact, if you had bothered to do any research on the topic you would have found out that one can make a request in several different ways. Using the telephone is one, or hiring an attorney to act on your behalf is another. I obtained mine from Minnesota over the telephone. All one has to do is verify certain information contained in the original, or offer proof that the requestor is the one requesting the information.
What you are trying to say is that the State of Hawaii has a law stating one can acquire certain information, yet there is no way for one to do so. That is total BS.
Now, the question you have to answer for yourself is why did Obama hire an attorney to seal those records rather then get a copy of them.
“You got me on the Constitution and law. Thanks for telling me my problems. Gettin’ flustered and resorting to broad attacks on “most leftwingers, if not all” I see. That didn’t take long.”
Well, I do have a low tolerance for ignorance especially when it is deliberate.
This one comment of yours is an example of just such ignorance. You said:
“Even if (maybe he has) Obama has requested the original, Hawaii is the party that decides what he gets. They have decided that their policy is to give verification paperwork in lieu of certified copies. Take it up with Hawaii.”
Evidently you are saying that Hawaiian officials can violate their own laws since it flatly states one has a right to the information, and that includes the original long form, if they are the individual declared on the certificate, and if they request it.
See why it is so hard to “debate” issues with your ilk? You consistently attempt to argue from a point with no substance.
BTW, here is the download for requesting a certified copy of a Hawaiian birth certificate. Would you show me where it says that a long form cannot be received, or that it is an application for a Certificate of Live Birth as factcheck says:
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/pdf/birth.pdf
Now, here is how one applies for a copy of ones birth certificate
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/index.html
Show me where it says it is an application for a Certificate of Live Birth.
Factcheck.org stated that there wasn’t an option to select a long form. You just proved them correct…oops. Putting words in their mouths is hard when things are documented. Here is the quote from Factcheck.org:
“Hawaii Department of Health’s birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department.”
The title of the request is for a “Certified copy of birth record.” When sent in, people who were born in Hawaii get a certified copy of their birth record that is titled, “Certificate of Live Birth.” What exactly is the problem? I don’t need to show you where is says that it is an application for a Certificate of Live Birth because nobody but you has made that claim here. Please show me where factcheck.org states that it is an application for a Certificate of Live Birth? The quote from them that I found states:
“The Hawaii Department of Health’s birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department.”
Maybe you should spend a bit more time reading and less time writing…
calmdownken says:
Factcheck.org stated that there wasn’t an option to select a long form. You just proved them correct…oops. Putting words in their mouths is hard when things are documented. Here is the quote from Factcheck.org:
“Hawaii Department of Health’s birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department…..”
“The Hawaii Department of Health’s birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department.”
Ok, so just to get this straight, if one requests a copy of their birth record, and receives what is called a Certificate of Live Birth as designated under section 338-14, there is no option for him to receive a copy of the long form Birth Certificate as required under section 338-13 which reads:
§338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.
Now notice, the LAW says that the department will furnish, upon request, a certified copy of “ANY CERTIFICATE, OR THE CONTENTS OF ANY CERTIFICATE”.
So, it is your contention that simply because the short form application for the birth records does not give the option for a long form birth certificate that Obama cannot obtain that record.
That’s about it.
Now, if you can follow along, if that be true why did Obama, and the DNC, spend over a million dollars to seal the record? Not only his birth record, but his college records, and his medical records?
calmdownken says:
Factcheck.org stated that there wasn’t an option to select a long form. You just proved them correct…oops. Putting words in their mouths is hard when things are documented. Here is the quote from Factcheck.org:”
BTW, simply because there is no “long form” on the internet does that mean one cannot call the office, and request such a form? Did you even bother reading the link, and seeing what options are available?
Ken,
How could I have used your own link to prove that your statements were not true (lies) if I hadn’t read it? Just curious.
Just so you know, I’m not doing this to change your mind. I just want to make sure that everyone knows that you have been repeatedly and demonstrably incorrect and basically have no credibility any more. For someone who is using small semantic things (Birther arguments) to prove huge conspiracies, I would think that you would try and be a little more accurate and careful in your own statments. I’ll give you the last word, as long as you don’t lie again. Feel free to attact me personally in your final rant, if that is how you would like to show your character.
He’s a pass master at proving himself wrong and he hasn’t had any credibility for about a month… but well done on your reinforcement
Hey Krazy Ken,
What do you propose to DO about the ObamaCert? Apart, that is, from whining like a Coprophagous Conservative…. I mean, what’s it all about (Alfie).
Also, what is your definition of a Classical Liberal, an Elitist and a “Liberal”… what do you believe “prove” means?
Let’s have it KK
calmdownken says:
Ken,
How could I have used your own link to prove that your statements were not true (lies) if I hadn’t read it? Just curious.”
What “lie” are you talking about? It is YOUR argument that there is evidently only ONE way to obtain a copy of a birth certificate, and only ONE form of birth certificate available, and that is determined by the State.
It is MY argument that there are several means by which to obtain a copy of ones birth certificate, as shown by the site I posted, and that ANY certificate can be obtained under Hawaiian law as I have shown.
Maybe it is just your comprehension of the facts that is in question.
“Just so you know, I’m not doing this to change your mind. I just want to make sure that everyone knows that you have been repeatedly and demonstrably incorrect and basically have no credibility any more. For someone who is using small semantic things (Birther arguments) to prove huge conspiracies, I would think that you would try and be a little more accurate and careful in your own statments. I’ll give you the last word, as long as you don’t lie again. Feel free to attact me personally in your final rant, if that is how you would like to show your character.”
Like you have attacked my character? I find it amusing, and quite consistent, that you attempt to inpugn my “character” with false statements, then declare that if I do so towards yours with the truth, that somehow it demonstrates a flaw in my character. Sorry, I am more inclined to support my arguments with real facts, not the made up ones you use. If you cannot comprehend the truth it is not my problem.
As to “huge conspiracies”, the question boils down to one simple fact, why does Obama, and the DNC, fight so hard to prevent his birth certificate, the one with all of the information required under Hawaiian law, and the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act of 1955 which was in effect in 1961, from being produced?
State officials have declared it exists.
Obama went to Court to prevent its disclosure.
Democrats demanded the release of similar birth certificates for both Goldwater, and McCain.
Here is a good discussion of the facts, and the issues you refuse to discuss:
http://mijgreb.blogtownhall.com/2009/02/05/exactly_what_kinds_of_birth_records_does_hawaii_provide.thtml
BTW, who are you? Shortall, or Cramer? You write too coherently to be Shortall even though you use the same tactics, and dishonest remarks. In either event, it is obvious you have broken your “vow” not to respond which is evidence of your “character”, lol
The lie that I was referring to was when you said:
“Secondly, it is factcheck’s contention that the Hawaiian form had no place on it to request the long form. This is BS…”
You then linked the form, which (like factcheck.org stated) doesn’t have a place on it to request the long form. Show me how the words that you used were not incorrect.
A second easy and new lie to point out was in your last sentence. Show me where I made a vow and then please show me where I broke it. In my last posting, I stated that I would let you have the last word, unless you lied. Is that the “vow” that you are referring to? You then lied by saying that I broke a vow to not respond. Or…is this another case of you taking an assumption (that I am someone else) and then using that as a fact to base an argument? Either way, you just lied. Old patterns die hard, I guess.
I am neither Shortall or Cramer. If you would quit watching Fox News all the time, you would realize that there are more of us out here than they would have you believe. A majority of voters selected Obama last November and I would hazard a guess that there are more than just two people out in Central Oregon who disagree with you strongly. Thank you for the compliments on my writing, by the way. It is probably due to my “elite education” that I earned via hard work and scholarships.
All the standard info is provided for Oregon, Colorado, & Arizona – Doctor, parents, eyes, etc. Nothing remotely conspiratory.
calmdownken says:
The lie that I was referring to was when you said:
“Secondly, it is factcheck’s contention that the Hawaiian form had no place on it to request the long form. This is BS…”
You then linked the form, which (like factcheck.org stated) doesn’t have a place on it to request the long form. Show me how the words that you used were not incorrect.”
Simple if you had actually read the form I posted from the internet. The form clearly states it is a request for the BIRTH RECORD, not a Certificate of Live Birth which is what Obama has been presenting. The request form has no place to request the “Certificate of Live Birth” which is offered in “lieu of the original certificate” as is stated in the law.
Additionally, I also posted a site that shows several different ways one can request the birth record aside from the internet form.
It is YOUR contention that the State of Hawaii can violate its own laws, and that the President of the United States is too stupid to be able to obtain a copy of his original birth certificate.
Sorry, I can’t help it if you are too stupid to understand simple things like the law.
“A second easy and new lie to point out was in your last sentence. Show me where I made a vow and then please show me where I broke it. In my last posting, I stated that I would let you have the last word, unless you lied. Is that the “vow” that you are referring to? You then lied by saying that I broke a vow to not respond. Or…is this another case of you taking an assumption (that I am someone else) and then using that as a fact to base an argument? Either way, you just lied. Old patterns die hard, I guess.”
Personally, I think it is you that is lying. You have the same habitual tendencies as Shortall, Cramer, PP, Steerpike, etc. And it is quite easy to change ones posting nick.
I am neither Shortall or Cramer. If you would quit watching Fox News all the time, you would realize that there are more of us out here than they would have you believe. A majority of voters selected Obama last November and I would hazard a guess that there are more than just two people out in Central Oregon who disagree with you strongly. Thank you for the compliments on my writing, by the way. It is probably due to my “elite education” that I earned via hard work and scholarships
JB says:
All the standard info is provided for Oregon, Colorado, & Arizona – Doctor, parents, eyes, etc. Nothing remotely conspiratory.”
That is what I thought. And none of that information is on the Obama Certificate of Live Birth.
Is it possible you might be able to comprehend what I was getting at now? Or would you rather stay in your state of denial?
“I am neither Shortall or Cramer. If you would quit watching Fox News all the time, you would realize that there are more of us out here than they would have you believe. A majority of voters selected Obama last November and I would hazard a guess that there are more than just two people out in Central Oregon who disagree with you strongly. Thank you for the compliments on my writing, by the way. It is probably due to my “elite education” that I earned via hard work and scholarships
You guys must be clones. You have the same agenda.
I missed responding to this when I posted the last letter to you.
One of the tell tale signs is that all of you keep referring to me as a watcher of Fox news when I have consistently said I watch mostly CNBC, CNN, C-Span, and the local news channel. The only program I record, then skim through, on Fox is the O’Reilly Factor.
However, it does not suit your Rachel Maddow, Olberhoff, Schultz, personality to even try to accept that.
Really, if you think you are denigrating me by a referral to Fox news then you must be a complete idiot. Fox has way more viewers then the leftwing loonies you watch, and there must be a reason for that. Perhaps it is because people know who is telling the truth, and who is lying, just maybe.
Swipearse… about this Birther Problem
What do you propose to actually DO about it apart from whine, whine and er, whine?
Party Pooper says: ,
Swipearse… about this Birther Problem
What do you propose to actually DO about it apart from whine, whine and er, whine?”
First off PP, it is your side that is doing the whining, lying, and refusing to face reality.
Secondly, it is your side that is in power. If they choose to enforce the Constitution, or ignore it, that is up to them.
Lastly, aside from your pissing, and moaning, in an effort to ignore the truth, the question should be what are you going to do about it? You’re the fool that voted for the scam artist.
Party Pooper says:
Swipearse… about this Birther Problem
What do you propose to actually DO about it apart from whine, whine and er, whine?”
Well, PP, in the first place it is your side that is doing the pissing, moaning, and lying, in order to avoid the truth.
Next, it is your party that is in power. It is their decision to enforce the Constitution, or ignore it. If they follow their usual trend they will continue to ignore it.
Lastly, it is fools like you that voted for the scam artist, and his entourage. Question is, would you be fool enough to do it again?
So….. you’re going to just continue moaning and whining …. why didn’t you just SAY so!?
Moan, moan, whine, moaney whine, whiney moan, moan, moan, gripe, whinegripe……. we lost and he was black, moaney groaney boo hoo the place just ain’t the same like it was in the good ol’ days before they got uppity!!
What does America even mean to people who would waste their time obsessing about Obama’s birth certificate? The normal activity for politicians on either side of the aisle is to lie, cheat and steal. Which side wastes more money? Republicans are the lead wasters (you can thank that idiot Bush) but Democrats will catch up soon. If you believe what pundits,talk radio hosts and mainstream media outlets tell you, you’ll never understand what is going on. After all, it’s all a socialist-communist-neocon-neolib plot depending on whose rag you read! It’s all power and graft. Plebes don’t have any voice, any power of any kind and never will. But if you’re lucky you can be left alone. That’s real freedom.
“Lastly, it is fools like you that voted for the scam artist, and his entourage. Question is, would you be fool enough to do it again?”
Is this referrring to Bush & Cheney, McCain and Palin, or Obama?
A: All three.
There’s not much choice in the matter, folks. It’s corruption all around. At least O is something a bit different than the same tired old white men.
Party Pooper says:
So….. you’re going to just continue moaning and whining …. why didn’t you just SAY so!?”
Well, guess that is better then what you are doing. Ignore the Constitution, and admit you think it is just something to wipe your ass with.
“Moan, moan, whine, moaney whine, whiney moan, moan, moan, gripe, whinegripe……. we lost and he was black, moaney groaney boo hoo the place just ain’t the same like it was in the good ol’ days before they got uppity!!”
Leave it to a bigot like you to think it is about race, not the law, or the Constitution, just the race.
I’d be willing to bet if it were a Black Conservative you would change your story. That is true racism.
Dog says:
What does America even mean to people who would waste their time obsessing about Obama’s birth certificate? The normal activity for politicians on either side of the aisle is to lie, cheat and steal. Which side wastes more money? Republicans are the lead wasters (you can thank that idiot Bush) but Democrats will catch up soon. If you believe what pundits,talk radio hosts and mainstream media outlets tell you, you’ll never understand what is going on. After all, it’s all a socialist-communist-neocon-neolib plot depending on whose rag you read! It’s all power and graft. Plebes don’t have any voice, any power of any kind and never will. But if you’re lucky you can be left alone. That’s real freedom.”
Problem is that the leftwing, whether they be Democrat, or Republican, have no intention of leaving you alone. If they did there would be purpose to their position of power.
“Lastly, it is fools like you that voted for the scam artist, and his entourage. Question is, would you be fool enough to do it again?”
Is this referrring to Bush & Cheney, McCain and Palin, or Obama?”
Since I did not vote for any of them I would tend to agree with you.
“There’s not much choice in the matter, folks. It’s corruption all around. At least O is something a bit different than the same tired old white men.”
Hasn’t been much of a choice in about 100 years, or ever since they introduced the “progressive income tax”, and the “Federal Reserve Board”, or a central bank. Once that occured, and the professional politicians had an unlimited amount of money to spend, it was all over.
I just want to throw out the concept that everyone who posts to this site does not need to be responded to or shouted down. Sometimes it would be nice to let someone’s comments just stand on their own sans bickering. Regardless of your political position, I think commentary can happen without response D, R or I.
It’s people like the “Birthers” and also the weirdo left wingers that have left me no choice but to become rich myself (it takes about 10 years of work but almost no one is willing to do it). There seems to be no place in this society for dependency on any ideal or political party. Protect your self and your family -if you can. As a rich man I can disdain both sides, protect my own interests and pit the irrational and unintelligent against one another. Groups that are funhouse mirror images of one another -like the “Birthers” and the Berkley-esque left wingers will always exist, and new causes can easily be invented on the fly to keep them endlessly distracted and outraged.
You’re right Dog…. the only way to be content and safe in this US is to be rich. It is a nation by the rich, for the rich and no doubt about it.