It looked like a pretty good deal at the time: For $269, you could buy a voucher for five all-day lift tickets at Mount Bachelor at Joe’s Sports & Outdoor stores – a savings of anywhere from $4 to $15 per day, depending on which days you skied.
The deal turned out to be not so sweet, though, when Joe’s filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in early March – and then Mount Bachelor management decided it wasn’t going to honor the vouchers, except for those sold at the Joe’s store in Bend.
The mountain’s marketing manager, Alex Kaufman, told reporters that Joe’s still owes the resort more than $100,000. “Normally, Joe’s would pay Mount Bachelor for the amount they sold by month. December, January, February, we never received that money,” Kaufman said.
Bachelor has told people who have the Joe’s vouchers that they can buy a lift ticket for the discounted price of the voucher and then go back to Joe’s to try to get a refund. Joe’s says it will give voucher-holders a refund, plus a coupon good for 30% off on their next store visit.
While we feel sorry for Mount Bachelor losing $100,000 (potentially, depending on how things shake out in bankruptcy court) we feel a lot more sorry for folks who purchased vouchers in good faith, having no way of knowing that Joe’s was about to go banko, and then suddenly discovered they were holding worthless pieces of paper.
The Oregon Department of Justice apparently feels sorry for them too. “We don’t think that Mount Bachelor should be forcing consumers to have to pay twice and then go get a refund from a company that any day now could be ordered not to give those refunds by a bankruptcy judge,” a spokesman for the department told KOHD.
One thing we’re having a great deal of trouble figuring out is what Bachelor thinks it can gain by not honoring the vouchers – aside from a lot of bad public relations, which it’s already had more than its share of in the past few years.
If Joe’s owes Bachelor $100,000, Bachelor’s claim is against Joe’s, not the people who bought the vouchers. And where’s the downside of honoring the vouchers? After all, it’s not as if the mountain would have to hire dozens of additional lift operators to handle the thousands of Joe’s voucher-holders who’d show up. The mountain might even make a little money selling them food, rental equipment and so forth.
We’re inclined to believe this was a decision Bachelor management made without thinking much (if at all) about the ill-will it would generate in the community – a pattern we’ve become all too familiar with since Powdr Corp. took over the mountain.
So far no consumer complaints have been filed over this issue; if they are, the Department of Justice has indicated it may compel Bachelor to honor the vouchers. Meanwhile here’s THE BOOT to the collective keister of Bachelor’s management, in the hope (probably in vain) that it will encourage greater sensitivity.
This article appears in Mar 26 – Apr 1, 2009.
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No call was placed to ask “why” to any of the above topics before this article was published. No matter where you stand on it, that is pretty questionable. I understand that the above piece is “opinion” and not subject to journalism standards, but it still requires a reply and IMHO we should demand a bit more out of folks forming and publishing public opinions on behalf of a trusted local publication.
1)”except for those sold at the Joeâ ™s store in Bend.”
This is simply a fabricated statement. None were sold in Bend. Any seeking of facts would have shown this. We have however negotiated at great effort so people can get a refund in Bend. This article seems to be aimed at stopping that.
2)”One thing weâ ™re having a great deal of trouble figuring out is what Bachelor thinks it can gain by not honoring the vouchers”
Having a hard time figuring it out because the unnamed author intentionally chose not to ask. If we continued to honor them after they went banko, we would not be able to make a realistic creditor claim at all. Like it or not that is relevant. The total is closer to $200,000 – throwing that away in this tourist economy when most had already been redeemed, nearly no one locally had them, and guests are given the deal and can get a refund? Yes a very relevant item and a substantial reason “why”. Like it or not, our goal as a business and for our 750 staff members, is not to go out of business, which has been a trend lately and not good for our region.
3)”Weâ ™re inclined to believe this was a decision Bachelor management made without thinking much (if at all) about the ill-will it would generate in the community”
It is clear you are “inclined” by your decision to not ask about it before pontificating. The vast majority of the vouchers have already been used and again none were sold locally. It has actually brought more business into the local Bend Joe’s location. We did think long and hard and I voiced strong opinion for days to find a way to honor them. In the end I agree with our approach 100% knowing more about the whole situation.
4)”Meanwhile hereâ ™s THE BOOT to the collective keister of Bachelorâ ™s management, in the hope (probably in vain) that it will encourage greater sensitivity.”
Anyone paying attention has seen greater accesibility, sensitivity and attentiveness to guest issues and our community from Mt Bachelor this year. That will continue. Don’t forget to get charity vouchers from United Way, Oregon Adaptive, Boy and Girl Scouts, and Volunteers in Medicine soon for the upcoming second round of charity weeks April 6-17 midweek. 100% of the proceeds go to the organizations.
I acknowledge that there are varying opinions on the above topics and the topic of Mt Bachelor. However, in our efforts to improve and uplift our ski area and region this sort of baseless and intentional disparaging of Bend’s hometown ski area, full of errors and assumptions is not creating a playing field where our successes and failures can be accurately judged. That is all I ask.
Ok AK@MTB – you have sort of cleared the air on a few things – BUT I do not see how honoring vouchers would disrupt a claim in a bankruptcy court. Get a better attorney and a better accountant – these things are easily tracked. Weigh out a few things – including asking your lawyer and accountant to value “goodwill”. Vouchers sold MINUS Vouchers used = vouchers still outstanding to be paid to MTB (payable) Am I missing something here????
Why is Bachelor being “booted” when the real culprit is obviously Joes. Joes was the business that made a promise (currently a nearly $200,000 promise) and didn’t keep it putting another local business between a rock and hard place. Joes should get “the boot”, not Bachelor.
Interesting when the first comment comes from the only person quoted in the editorial and he flat out slams the entire article. Youâ ™d think The Source might actually do a little research before they printed something but perhaps thatâ ™s asking too much.
I heard Joes didnâ ™t pay Mt. Bachelor for the vouchers sold at their stores in December, January, and February. Yet the mountain continued to honor vouchers despite no payment from Joes. When Joes announced Chapter 11 the mountain had to do something to protect itself. Granted itâ ™s not an ideal situation for the guests who purchased vouchers and did not use them but the mountain had to do something to protect itself.
Mt. Bachelor has made a pretty decent effort at earning back the trust of guest this season. They should let their efforts speak for themselves instead of having a marketing guy lashing out at the media for articles it disagrees with, or arguing with unhappy locals about their comments on the Source website. Really, really unprofessional. Sounds like Kaufman had his say in the article where he was quoted repeatedly. Boo hoo if it didn’t come out the way he wanted. We can’t expect BOTH newspapers in this town to write continual puff-piece valentines to Mt. Bachelor, can we?
The mountain didn’t protect itself. As a huge pile of volcanic deposits there’s likely very little damage Joe’s bankruptcy could do to it.
Powdr Corp protected itself from financial loss. Let’s not confuse the two entities, nor their motivations.
Thanks to AK for clarifying another side of this issue.
As a local who doesn’t have season passes but goes up a few times a year, I don’t have the passionate negative opinions I’ve heard from many the past couple years. My only complaint is occasional long lines. But I’m interested…just not passionate.
I’ve only heard the rumors about Joe’s and the voucher issue – indeed, this was the primary reason I chose to read the article…to learn more. Glad I clicked on the comments, too…
I see MTB trying to improve things – this and previous communications on TS online are evidence.
My opinion is that MTB is a local treasure and source of regional pride. So local debates (i.e. TS vs MTB) are healthy to keep everyone honest and standards high.
But an expectation from your readers is a simple call to get a quote from each of the local sites (Joe’s and MTB, in this case). That didn’t appear to happen. TS drops a notch on credibility. Now, if TS has information to refute the above comment from AK, that would be an interesting, and healthy, debate for the community to observe and even participate in.
I like going to bachelor. Lots of people up their earning minimum wage or working for no wages and only ski priveleges, trying to make it a good experience for their guests. They caught a bad break with the weather this season, which is too bad since they look like they are trying. And the tanking economy is also a big bummer. Having said that, when I see a PR/marketing guy being a big cry-baby, bachelor and powdr corp lose whatever credibility they got back this season.
Although rather tabloidesque, it is an editorial, so there really isn’t much of a burden of proof on the part of the Editorial Staff. And the initial response from AK seemed to me like for like as far as tone goes. Sounds to me MTB and maybe even Joe’s did the best it could with a lousy situation and seeing the lack of a real public uproar about it, I’m inclined to believe that the holders of the vouchers have been understanding and responsive. My hat’s off to them.
CJ: The source quoted other media covering it as a news story from about 10 days ago. They did not care to ask Mt Bachelor about “why” before writing this piece and jumping to insulting conclusions. I put my name on my attempt to set the record straight, The Source chose not to attach a name before printing this. I attempted to address one by one the errors in it – we have a right to address those who aim to do us wrong.
oldguy: I regret if a few folks see a pointed reply from Mt B as not allowed or unprofessional. In my view letting this sort of thing stand or ignoring it would be a far greater error in judgement. We disagree strongly with the insulting statements and regret The Source chose to take this tact without even as much as a phone call. Thus an attempt to offer facts to those who care for them.
Ah, you got to love it. Another idiotic move by the Mountain. IMHO they were not financially responsible by forecasting ahead enough or building better trust relationships with businesses like Joe’s that were supposed partners. Fault is nothing to throw around I think but rather HONESTY in making a rather shortsighted and STUPID voucher program weak…. sounds like the other non profit system they set up has alot of weaknesses as well. But hey that is how people learn – maybe in the 1st year of business. Powdr Corp and Bachelor have been around far too long to get trapped into such foolish financial and legal dealings. Unbelievable!
stupid me. I always thought the professional thing to do was contact the publication if a story was disputed, ask for a correction, clarification or retraction if the story was lax or egregiously deficient in reporting. Stamping your feet…much better. Bachelor disagrees with everyone who has a negative opinion of the place. Why not go door to door in this town and argue your way to a better reputation? that would be just as an effective PR strategy.
additional note….The sportsman’s warehouse store in Bend, was bought along with 14 other stores in the chain by a canadian company on march 11. Although not obligated to, the store was accepting gift cards sold prior to the takeover until the end of this month. They could have easily said tough luck like Bachelor, but at least made an effort that will lose them money initially, but keep their customers in the long run.
oldguy:
Providing the info for those who care for it is our preference and it has done us well this year. Our reputation is improved by not being a punching bag, but instead providing additional info for folks who care to make an informed judgment. The 1% who post are on one side of the fence or the other (as is clear above). The 99% who read, are interested in the whole story and they deserve it.
I personally comunicate with every person who contributes feedback to Mt B electronically. It varies widely. Some of it is totally legit and we take action right away, other is more long term, and other needs to hear why we take a certain course of action. We hear all the feedback both positive and negative and we take our responsibility seriously to act accordingly in our attempt to please as many publics as possible. We engage with folks who have a negative opinion. That way we can learn why and see if there is common ground or room to improve. That is a far different topic than this opinion column.
I would be happy to chat further on the topic. Feel free to email me and we can setup a time to meet. The coffee (beer) is on me. first initial last name @mtbachelor.com
thanks for the offer, but I’ll decline. I believe actions speak louder than words. and unfortunately, the words overshadow the progress Bachelor has made this season. not interested in being told why my opinion is wrong. Bachelor ultimately earns the public reputation it deserves, whether its good or bad.
OK, the offer stands sir. I can accept that you have chosen to attack the messenger, rather than the message. Others clearly appreciate the message being delivered. To each their own.
I have to agree with oldguy. I think it is in Bachelor’s best interests to be careful in these public forums. It is tough to appear “real” while at the same time stand your ground. It would be nice for AK to admit ONCE that things are not perfect and agree with someone’s comments rather to constantly sound like he is on the defensive with his choice of aggressive words. Bachelor is not perfect that is for sure but to have a staff person come across so unprofessional to me is questionable. Makes you wonder what the Big Dog Dave R) has in mind allowing his staffer to carry on and on and on… To let things go unaddressed is not the best either BUT AK should try another tactic. This hasn’t worked now for ummmm how many months? When did you start there AK? 5 months ago?
Ann,
Thanks for the feedback.
If you have followed the handful of topics I have chimed in over the season you will see plenty of various points granted and a strong attempt to stay on topic. The anonymous may lob grenades at me, but I avoid return fire of a personal nature.
The definition of “worked” is what is now in question. If “worked” means convincing everyone then no of course not and it never will. If “worked” means making employees proud to work at Mt B, reducing rumors, and trying to get this community out of the rut of always assuming the worst about Mt B, then yes it has worked.
Participating will never convince everyone, it will however bring a few folks out of the woodwork to toss their bombs at me. My skin is think enuff – or at least I have to keep it as thick as possible to remain sane. The positive feedback I get from business owners, staff, guests, and community leaders that appreciate the change helps keep me sane too.
It is good to hear that “some” things are working or have worked – your examples are things that probably have progressed in the right direction. You have to remember what a mess it was up there from 2001-2008 – that is a long period of time for folks to just say “good job” when things look like they might be getting better. Compared to the unsafe things that went on up there for so many years and not reported by either the mountain or the stupid Bulletin, just staff talking, people are leary of those who all of a sudden paint a rosy picture – it just doesn’t seem real. Safer parks, trained staff, reliable equipment – basically warrants higher prices for tickets. Until those things happen and are made PUBLIC, people will always bitch. If someone gets certified or takes high level training on park management, grooming, avalanche control etc – put it in the paper —– shows there is an effort in management’s professionlism. Good luck and just so you know, thick skin isn’t even close to being good enough to handle the PR disaster Bachelor has yet to overcome…
AK,
It may be to your benefit to start acting with some tact in our community.
I have heard you in person mention to some people that people in Bend are a bunch of whiners, are not happy with anything and are pretty much a bunch of backwoods hillbillies and do not cater to your East Coast uppity high class opinions of how things ought to be. Surely you reserve this right but no one is keeping you here in Bend. A lot of us have put up with a lot of BS from the managers over the years up at the mountain and to be honest a lot of us are sick and tired of an area run on mediocre standards as they have had no competition. If someone were to open a resort across the highway, then Mt. B would today be an empty area falling apart as it would not take a lot of effort to make for a great ski area. The issue with Joes is your responsibility and the simple fact you did not collect the monies from Joes and no one stayed on top of it rather rests with your team, not with the pass holder who spent their hard earned dollars to buy a five day pass. Further adding insult to injury we locals were banned from buying them here in Bend as they are apparently a competitor of Mt. Bachelor in regards to being a ski shop and tuning shop.
When you marketing whizzes figure out that competition is healthy for the ski business and start to allow ski shops, hotels and other area supporters the same passes then the community becomes in union with the ski area. Ski shops in the Bend area get along great. They even go as far as help eachother out when one shop is out of a particular item they help eachother out, the focus being on the CUSTOMER. The customer or guest as you call them are people and when you join the people business and get the egos out of the picture, then the money will flow and profits start to accumulate.
Dave was a breath of fresh air, but your contribution is not much better, but rather worse than some of predessesors in having an attitude that is poor and elitist. Being naive, arrogant and not willing to adapt to this area and wanting to compare it with other east coast ski areas and the attitudes of people leaves someone like me to ask myself if you have ever been to BC to ski areas, Jackson Hole, The Lake Tahoe area where they compete on every level to EARN the dollars of their guests rather than sitting back with ” we are doing our best” attitude and whining about how miserable they are in Bend.
I can respect Dave Rathbun for he knew what he was diving into and his attitude has proven itself repeatedly as he knew he was going into a hostile environment and maintains some level of humility whereas your agressive elitist attitude turns most people off and a lot of folks simply have no respect for you and how you handle the issues. I am sure you would fit in fine with Bear Stearns or with AIG where arrogance runs rampant and the managers spend their days stroking eachothers egos rather than sincerly listen to the needs of their customers and re tool their methods to fit changing times.
Captain Reality
Anonymous comments and claims that cannot be verified and proved should not be believed, regardless of the passion and length of the author.
After all, I heard you say that the skiers in town who ski can’t handle anything but groomed slopes and all of them suck!!
AK why does this ski area NOT have a public BLOG? Do you wish to control and manipulate the feedback from the community like FOX or CNN?
Your responding to every email with feedback seems like a rather futile job for someone that should be promoting the ski area in the community and being positive in regards to the locals instead of the negativity you convey with locals, local businesses and community associations. Like it or not Mt. Bachelor is mirrored thru your attitude and how you carry yourself in the community. At a dinner party just tonight the topic came up again about how your negative agressive attitude has turned people away from the mountain.
Joes should have had the opportunity to sell the five day passes here in Bend or at least you could have offered these passes to the locals as it makes no sense for a local to have to drive to Salem, Portland or Eugene to get this deal. What kind of local relations program does this fit into?
The final word should rest with Mr Hank, since he is the best and final arbitor of all things rightous.
I declare the argument over. Mr AK feels that he must attack each and every slam against MB; and that he has done fairly well, in Mr Hank’s valued opinion, and done it without an arrogant, elitist East Coast attitude.
Any local hicks who disagree with me, can just git back in their beatup pickup truck and go back to Prineville or Alfalfa, or Hoodoo. Us Bend sophisticates really don’t want them on our Bachelor anyway.
Here’s a perspective from a Portland Skier. It’s a long drive to come down to Bachelor, and we do have several choices closer to home. I’ve been coming down to Bachelor for ~6 weekends/season for the last 20 years.
The tickets I bought at Joe’s were clearly Mt Bachelor ticket stock, with a small printed “Joe’s” on it – very little different than the ones you get at the ticket booth at the mountain. By selling me a 5-pack through Joe’s, Bachelor asked me to commit to skiing at least 5 times over the season, and I was willing to meet my end of that commitment; the Bachelor folks were not. After my last trip down to Bend, I left for an extended business trip, and by the time I got back, Joe’s was in liquidation, and I’m stuck with two Mt Bachelor tickets.
After getting shafted by this ticket thing we’re unlikely to ski Bachelor again (or spend our money in the Bend restaurants, bars, ski shops, lodging, etc.). I never thought I would say that customer service is much better at Meadows than Bachelor, but… I’ve talked to other Portland folks who also plan to stick closer to home next year (or drive to Crystal or fly to Salt Lake or Whistler). Maybe the folks in Bend are a captive audience, but that isn’t who Bachelor screwed with this move.
In my view, Bachelor has done major damage to their brand with this short sited choice.
AK@MTB You’re either a tool used by Pwdr or not very smart…
“The vast majority of the vouchers have already been used and again none were sold locally.” So, if a VAST MAJORITY were already used, why would Pwdr stiff the tiny minority left? Whoever made this decision was only in it for the $$$. It was $200 grand lost and Pwdr just tried to make back a few bucks! How many unredeemed tickets were redeemed with the generous “pay twice, ski once” program? I doubt many of the tiny minority…
“A fool opens his mouth and removes all doubt”… certainly applies here.
Captain Reality – Hear, HEAR!