Mr. Kevin Swipies asserts, “Liberals Have No Answers.” Speaking as a liberal, I’d like to address some of Mr. Swipies comments.
The Dick Cheney and “death by microwave” reference from a Source columnist was printed to make a point. No one in their right mind wishes death upon anyone else. That is unless of course you are Dick Cheney or someone of his ilk. I’ve got one word for you here: Halliburton. Let’s be clear, Cheney has been responsible for more personal suffering and death than any one Source columnist could ever dream up in a lifetime of twisted nightmares.
Regarding the Justice Roberts comment, Mr. Swipies’ assertion that, “Obviously the guy is ignorant of history or facts, since it was the Democrats back in the early 1900s that supported the KKK, and their murdering of any black that chose to vote Republican, opposed the Civil Rights Act and opposed a woman’s right to vote.” I assume from this comment that Mr. Swipies considers himself a good history student and fact checker. And he’s correct, however he’s skewed the context. A Republican, back then, would’ve been considered a liberal- at least pertaining to those issues.
As far as all the oil in Iraq…yeah, that’s a head-scratcher. Seems I recall Donald Rumsfeld talking about what a short-term action this whole Iraq adventure would be. And how the people would be throwing roses at the feet of their American military liberators. I guess when that didn’t quite pan out; the whole oil thing kind of went sour too? Hey, who knew those troublemaking Kurds would partner up with China? Bottom line, oil was a motivating factor, or at least some control of it, and it didn’t work out. So this is at the doorstep of liberals? And what’s phony about an energy bill that’s at least an attempt to get the petroleum monkey off our back?
So, Mr. Swipies’ rant continues and then he asks about any progressive programs that have succeeded, etc. Well, I’m sorry your liberal correspondents had nothing for you. I’ve got a few:
1) The New Deal – The Depression – FDR
2) The Peace Corps – 1961 – JFK
3) The Job Corps – 1964 – LBJ
I could go on about the stellar list of Conservatives-Nixon, boy those latest tape releases are a real treat…almost forgot Watergate. And don’t forget how he teamed up with Mr. Kaiser of Kaiser Permanente to set our current health care system into motion. Reagan (and Bush I) that Iran/Contra thing was a lot of fun and cutting all those social programs during the Reagan years was real beneficial to most Americans. And why is it that Conservatives seem to always pledge their support to the military yet we have debacles like the Walter Reed Medical Center in DC and the wounded troops who’ve come home from now back to Nam and can’t get a fair break?
I’ll just finish by saying I respect the fact that you haven’t voted for a Republican, save one, in 20 years. You’ve got that going for you.
This article appears in Jul 9-15, 2009.
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“since it was the Democrats back in the early 1900s that supported the KKK”
The Democrats back then were the white supremacist party in the South by default, since all the Southern whites despised the Republicans because of the Civil War and emancipation. But in the disputed election of 1876, which was thrown into the House of Representatives, the Republicans cut a deal with Democrats to pull federal troops out of the South and let the KKK have its way in return for putting Republican Rutherford B. Hayes in the White House. The result was that white racists ruled the South until the mid-1960s, when the DEMOCRATS (led by JFK, RFK and LBJ) finally got the Civil Rights Act enacted — over the opposition of some Southern Democrats, true, but also over the opposition of many conservative Republicans.
When he signed the act, LBJ remarked: “We [Democrats] have lost the South for a generation.” He was prophetic. In the 1970s the Republicans adopted their notorious “Southern strategy” based on subtle and not-so-subtle appeals to white racism, and the once solidly Democratic South became solidly Republican — which it pretty much remains to this day. (Look at the red and blue states on the last three or four election maps.)
Those who want to throw stones at others for supposedly not knowing history had better move out of their own glass houses first.
Im not even going to read this since the title is ” A Liberal Answers” that tells me enough about the person who wrote it.
Suffering and death?!!! Please elaborate. (You know, REAL FACTS). Then we might take you seriously.
Didn’t Nixon get re elected after watergate? What I like about these articles is how open minded the writers are. It is good to know they know what is best for everybody, and what beleifs are right. We should all praise these people because they truly beleive they are smater than us. I hope the writer catches at least some of my sarcasm here.
Bush as in W. signed every pork spending bill put in front of him in eight long years, borrowed money from the Chinese that we all have to pay back and the economy only got better for the already greedy rich. The formation of the Patriot Act had more anti gun laws in it than all of the democrats in the last eight decades, violated more constitutional rights of Americans than since the declaration of independence……ALL VOTED IN BY REPUBLICANS.
OK, first of all for pjk and his question about “suffering and death” – Cheney was very enthusiastic about promoting the Iraq War. The Iraq was resulted in the deaths of at least tens of thousands of Iraqis and the injury and disablement of hundreds of thousands more. This is collectively referred to as “suffering and death”. The Republican Party is in favor of “personal and collective responsibility” – Cheney is a Republican – thus he has accepted responsibility for the Iraq war he promoted (not alone, but that is not the point). Thus Cheney is responsible for “suffering and death”.
Secondly, Plural Guy,
In most civilized contries bigots harbor a splinter of shame about their bigotry – is it only here that they advertise it?
Lastly “Thanks for teaching me something”
The Watergate breakins were on May 28 and June 17, 1972 and Nixon resigned in 1974 – so what? It is a great gift to learn from those who are smarter than us – welcome it, don’t fight it, learning is the way out of ignorance.
“Im not even going to read this since the title is ” A Liberal Answers” that tells me enough about the person who wrote it.”
A mind is a terrible thing to waste on a conservative.
“Didn’t Nixon get re elected after watergate?”
And they wonder why we call the Republican base “low-information voters.”
Mr. Shortall–
I have to disagree with you about an element of shame in bigotry. Bigots in China, India, England, France, Egypt, Mexico, Australia, name your country in Africa, etc. never exhibit shame–they don’t have to because they don’t care what the rest of us think. They are able to justify their view of the despised class, race, or religion with a core belief structure that ends any need for shame, discussion and debate. One of the best movies I ever saw on the subject was about the skinheads in Liverpool. As real as it gets. The US has not cornered the market on bigotry and shamelessness.
While we’re using selective labels and all, it might be useful perspective to remember that those beloved “liberal” war-mongers JFK and LBJ were responsible for more death and suffering in Vietnam than the havoc wreaked by the two Bushes (with support from Cheney!) in Iraq and elsewhere combined, and that the most conservative fiscal policies since the ’60s were a tag-team effort of Bush I (Republican) and Clinton (Democrat). It’s disturbing to think about, but by many measures the most liberal president of the last half-century was (shudder) that Dick Nixon.
I find it hard to disagree with what you say Olde-Tymer –
JFK and LBJ did have considerable responsibility for Vietnam (not too sure “war-monger” is accurate though).
The stupidity of conservative economics was already spreading during the Reagan administration (remember that good ol’ Freemarket Religion?), Clinton took up the banner and handed it on, enhanced, to W and he added his dictum “No Rules is good Rules”). Allowing the greedy little boys (and girls) to play Roulette with the People’s money and putting Foxes in charge of our henhouse led to the current collapse – they were right not to worry: they got rich and when the game was up, WE the people fished them out when Ol’ Ronny Reagan would have said “let the market sort it out”, I’m sure.
Hopefully, we’ve learned our lesson.
Olde-Tymer,
You are inaccurate about the casualties in the Viet Nam War. Up until the election of 1968, when the “liberal” Nixon ran as a peace candidate (much as Obama was the peace candidate in ’08), the death toll of American soldiers stood at about 22,000. It was on Nixon’s watch with his radical escalation of hostilities that another 36,000 Americans died and well over two-thirds of the 3.2 Million innocent Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laotians who were slaughtered directly or indirectly by our criminal government. There’s tons of blood, literally, on the hands of Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger, a couple of the most megalomaniacal, malevolent architects of the grotesque U.S. imperial overreach we are suffering from today. Or as I like to think of it, Kissinger was the principle sausage-maker of the rancid globaloney we’re forced to eat today.
“While we’re using selective labels and all, it might be useful perspective to remember that those beloved “liberal” war-mongers JFK and LBJ were responsible for more death and suffering in Vietnam than the havoc wreaked by the two Bushes (with support from Cheney!) in Iraq and elsewhere combined”
Well, if we want to go WAY back in history we might note that the first Republican president, A. Lincoln, was commander in chief during a war that killed more Americans than all other wars COMBINED up until Vietnam. But these comparisons can get a little silly, can’t they?
HBM: “But these comparisons can get a little silly, can’t they?”
Yes, at least a little — but not any more silly than the use and misuse of labels like liberal and conservative when very human presidents, congresspeople and citizens live lives and act acts of such gross contradiction.
On body counts: Yeah, Lincoln had a catastrophic body count, and that’s an important perspective to illustrate the senselessness of wars. Lincoln DID have just cause, though; JFK, LBJ and W (in the case of Iraq, at least) did not.
Now, it would be only fair to argue that JFK and LBJ (and Nixon) didn’t start their stupidity in Vietnam, but they did escalate the stupidity beyond any justifiable or moral scale. I’m concerned that while Obama shows the sense to attempt to de-escalate in Iraq, the opposite is being done in Afghanistan. That war, while (unlike Iraq) one that could be reasonably defended as just, may wind up in yet the same stupid and unwinnable place we’ve been (directly and indirectly) again and again and again — with presidents both “liberal” and “conservative.”
First of all, thank you Richard Shortall for supporting my position. You are obviously an educated and open-minded individual. For “Plural Guy”, how sad it is that you can’t even try to understand the position of someone you claim not to agree with. By refusing to read my letter you send a very poor message about the validity of any stance you’d like folks to believe you support…or would like others to support. To paraphrase FDR – A Conservative is someone with 2 perfectly good legs that refuses to use them to move forward. I was taught that you must be able to convincingly argue a point you do not agree with to fully understand it. And therefore be informed enough to make valid issue judgments. Plural Guy, you aren’t in the same league with sincere, concerned citizens. This is apparent due to your total closed-mindedness.
For PJK, real facts…what do you need that you don’t have? Read up on Iraq, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Walter Reed Medical, VA Benefits (or lack of them). My brother served in the Marines during the Reagan years. He was at the Beirut airport, 2 miles away, when the suicide bombers blew the building apart killing all those Marines and Navy personnel. He came back in need of help for Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome and I can tell you he’s one vet that fell through the cracks along with so many others during a Conservative, Republican, pro-Military, flag-waving, jingoistic love-fest, fueled by the Newt Gingriches and Dick Cheney’s of this world. If those aren’t enough facts for you, there’s no hope for you either.
I love America enough to know when we’re doing something wrong. This is not about teaching people things, it’s about common sense and decency. I can only pray that one day you folks will wake up and start thinking about people you don’t understand in a different way.
Bottom line, they are all crooked politicians. The only interests either side of things care about are their own or those who pay for all their perks. So get involved personally and stop partisan politics, restore our freedoms and liberties, and stop the bickering. If you can not recognize that both liberals and conservatives can agree on some things, then all is lost.
There is much that could be said to many of these responses from the liberals, however, I just discovered this comment site so I will post here the response that I sent to the editors.
Congratulations to Mr. Jasper for demonstrating what I said when stating that liberals have no answers, just a fictional understanding of reality. And I am sorry that the editor of The Source could not take the time to meet with me.
In regards to Dick Cheney, The Source columnist was not the first who has openly stated that Cheney would be better off dead. More then one liberal blogger has stated the same, and not just about Cheney. When Tony Snow, and Jerry Falwell, died several liberal bloggers were exceptionally gleeful. Other conservatives that have received the same treatment by liberal bloggers would include Michael Savage, Dr, Laura, Pat Robertson, and the list goes on. When Dr. Tiller was murdered much was made about “right wing” hate speech. However, nothing has been said about “left wing” hate speech when it comes to groups such as PETA, ELF, ActUp, or even the Unabomber. Liberals have attacked conservatives such as the Minutemen, Michael Steele, David Horowitz, Ann Coulter, etc., on college campuses. None such activities can be said for the “right wing”.
As to Halliburton, while Cheney was the CEO for a while, Halliburton is owned by a very liberal family, that of LadyBird Johnson, and the likes of George Soros, and Nancy Pelosi, are heavily invested in said company.
Now, I asked for examples of “liberal success” stories, and Mr. Jasper came up with three.
The New Deal. The actions of FDR led to the first time in US history where the US actually had to import grain. The slaughter of millions of hogs led to a shortage of pork. The policies led to a top marginal tax rate of 94%, and the establishment of the Mandatory Income Tax Withholding in 1943. This was supposed to be temporary to pay for the war, and we all know how that went. Then too, with the expansion of the Commerce Clause of the Constitution under FDR we also saw the expansion of the power of the federal government, welfare for farmers which led to the demise of the family farm and the growth of mega farms which now receive 80% of the farm welfare, corporate welfare, and a general welfare system that now has 52% of the population dependent on the fed when you take into account those on welfare, farmers, government employees, government contractors, SS/SSDI recipients, etc.
Kennedy’s Peace Corps: 170,000 people have volunteered for the Peace Corps in the 48 years of their existence, and have operated in 136 different countries. They have done marvelous work. However, they have failed in training counterparts to take their place in the host country. Where is the world peace that Kennedy dreamed of?
The Job Corps: Over the history of the job corp billions of dollars have been spent on the participants. Bush requested 1.5 billion a year for this agency. However, Department of Labor studies have shown that the end result was a 24 CENTS per hour difference between those who participated, and those who did not. And this at only a cost of $21,500 per participant.
As for Walter Reed, I wonder if Mr. Jasper is aware that the VA was building a brand new facility for the veterans, and that the barracks used was a temporary facility. If he did I am quite sure he would conveniently ignore that fact.
And as to energy, why do liberals ignore the advantages we already have such as nuclear power, natural gas, biomass, use of timber, etc., and focus so hard on solar, and wind, that will never get us off our dependence on foreign oil?
Now, once again I ask, can you name any liberal success programs?
BTW, while you can sit there and denigrate some who are called Conservatives, studies have shown that Conservatives give far more of their own time, and money, to charity then liberals. Think about it.
Now, perhaps I should start sending in single issue letters that address the failure of liberalism on many topics such as education, college education, abortion, civil rights, ethics, medicare, social security, head start, and numerous other subjects.
Well, now that I have found this comment section I will be sure to utilize it more.
In reading the comments of “Captain Justice”, a person obviously afraid to use his real name, I find it very exemplary of the attitude liberals take when challenged by one more informed then they, and by one who is actually able to comprehend what he is reading.
Mr. “Justice” calls me a “cretin Republican” when I clearly stated that I did not vote for Republicans. In fact, I support Libertarians, Natural Law candidates, and the Constitution Party.
I did not support the invasion of Iraq which, just for his information, was formulated by Clinton in 1998 with the signing of the Iraqui Freedom Act. Go look it up. In fact, I supported the funding of the Shi’ites, and the Kurds, in a revolution as Bush 41 promised to do in 1990, and then failed to do when the Shi’ites rose up resulting in their slaughter by Hussein.
I did not support Bush 43’s spending. The vast majority of that spending was for increases in useless social programs such as Medicare Part D, and the infamous “No Child Left Behind” Act both of which were heartily supported by liberal Democrats. Nor did I support the reinvestent in the Community Reinvestment Act (a Jimmy Carter program modified by Clinton) which contributed to the current mortgage crisis, and was supported by Obama, ACORN, NAACP, and numerous liberals such as Dodd, Franks, etc.
Now, just to educate Mr. “Justice” some more, tax decreases have always, note the always, led to increased tax revenues for the Fed. While Bush did inherit the recession that began under Clinton with the dotcom bubble bursting, and then there was 911, that was no excuse to continue the spending beyond what the Constitution allows for. Of course, liberals try to confuse others about the meaning of the Constitution when it states “promote the general welfare” of the people just as they try to confuse reality with their definition of “liberal” by trying to identify themselves with the “Classical Liberalism” of Jefferson which could not be further from the truth.
So, just for Mr. “Justice”, recently the liberals in Salem passed a tax increase on corporations which I am sure is going to make Oregon more attractive to other corporations, and insure that the few that are still here remain here. Setting that aside, maybe Mr. “Justice” can explain how the increase in gas taxes from $0.24 to $0.30 per gallon, or the registration fees for vehicles from $54 for tags to $86; or title fees from $23 to $78 (HB 2001) is going to help the poor, and the lower income people?
How is increasing the tax on health insurance premiums by 1%, or the increase in taxes on hospitals (HB 2116) going to help the poor, and the low income worker?
How is increasing the tax on tobacco related products (not cigarettes which seen a recent assinine increase in taxes) with a minimum tax of $2.14 on containers, going to help the poor, and the lower income worker (HB 2672)? How about an increase in taxes on products that cause obesity, or sex items which promote promiscuity and thus the spread of STD’s, HepC, HIV/AIDS, Chlamydia, Herpes, etc. all of which cause more health problems then tobacco use, and are behavioural choices, not the result of an addiction?
Now, I realize that once again I have gone over the 400 word limit, however, is it not important that when one has to respond to such an ignorant, hatefilled, rant as that of Mr. “Justice” that one do so adequtely? And where did Mr. “Justice” give any examples of the success of liberalism? Was it not just an angry rant filled with false information?
Itâ ™s an easy story for too many to believe, and it fits into their worldview that does not allow for one to accept responsibi lty for the actions of the party they wish to vote for. I don’t recall anything in history where the GOP openly hung, or killed, Blacks simply because they wished to vote for Republicans.
In 2006 two political scientists called it into Richard Johnston of the University of Pennsylvania and Byron Shafer of the University of Wisconsin, wrote “The End to Southern Exceptionalism” in which they argue that the shift in the South from Democratic to Republican was not about race but of economic growth. In the postwar era the South become an economic engine of the nation, giving rise to a sizable new wealthy suburban class. This class began to vote for the party that best represented its economic interests, the GOP. Working-class whites, even those in areas with large black populations, stayed loyal to the Democrats. This was true until the 90s, when the nation as a whole turned rightward in Congressional voting.
The claim with an extensive survey of election returns and voter surveys. In the 50s, among Southerners in the low-income tercile, 43 percent voted for Republican Presidential candidates, while in the high-income tercile, 53 percent voted Republican. By the 80s those ir was 51 percent and 77 percent. Wealthy Southerners shifted rightward in droves but poorer ones didnâ ™t.
Many whites in the South opposed liberal Democrats on race issues. But when folks went to the polling booths they voted by their economic preferences, not racial preferences.
Of course, you can always blame the “Jim Crow” laws on Republicans too, but, only if you want to avoid reality.
One other matter, you forgot that Johnson also said that without the Republicans, who voted in larger percentages for civil rights legislation then Democrats, the Civil Rights Act would never have passed.
To Mr. Swipies,
Thanks for the congratulations, but I’m afraid your ramblings are the only fiction that exists here. You missed my point about the Source columnist printing the “death by microwave” comment. If you believe any liberal (Dem. or Rep.) is as blood thirsty as Dick Cheney you’re dreaming or in serious denial. Liberal views are based on fair, treatment of people vs. shoot first, ask questions later Conservatism.
It’s interesting you’ve chosen Pat Robertson and the late Jerry Falwell to feel sorry for. Both are/were morally as far from the teachings of Christ as you can get. I guess that’s ok… it’s Conservatism, if the Carpenter from Nazareth were around today He wouldn’t fit into your, right-wing pigeon hole. Michael Savage…alright Ken, go ahead, build that wall at the Mexican border. The border patrol then can shoot anyone trying to cross the border. By the way don’t complain about the price of tomatoes or choke on your OJ once Michael Savage gets this in place.
The Unabomber…liberals were behind this guy? You forgot Tim McVeigh, did he get a pass?
You ever actually listened to Ann Coulter or read her? Wouldn’t surprise me to see her in a helicopter with Sarah Palin shooting at wolves and liberals.
Halliburton, you know Cheney made out like a pirate. If Lady Bird Johnson’s family is involved they’ve obviously changed stripes with less than liberal views. Nancy Pelosi never thrilled me, but you provide no evidence of either party tied to Halliburton.
Stop slamming FDR. Be thankful the guy had vision, drive and common sense and did the right thing. Conservative policies brought on the Depression… thanks Silent Cal and Herbert Hoover. You forget about the TVA and the CCC? You seem eager to deplete timber resources, FDR made sure there were trees to look at, let alone exploit. Want a thorough understanding of farm policy and mega-conglomerate, agri-business? Hello, Dick Nixon and Earl Butz. Read The Omnivore’s Dilemma by Michael Pollan, learn the truth about farm practice and the Nixon/Butz legacy. Appreciate the fact Conservatives didn’t get their way with Social Security privatization. After the good news from Wall Street, we’ve avoided one huge mess. Is Soc.Sec. another liberal hand out to folks who should work ’til they drop? Unaware of your family circumstances, I’d bet someone you know or love, has or had a safety net thanks to FDR.
The Peace Corps…nice back-handed compliment. The Peace Corps is a success. If it had been a Conservative idea, and we’d go into countries with enforcement like neo-Colonialism, you’d view it as successful? What a novel concept…we, arguably the wealthiest nation on earth, go someplace that needs assistance. We help “peacefully” and do not expect the aided country to be in lock step with us. It’s just help Ken, and good will. Countries still do what they’re going to do, that’s freedom, I’m sorry you don’t view this as a success.
The Job Corps…have you known anyone actually involved in it? I have and financial stats say one thing, but for most of these young people, it’s the difference between a job/career, or ending up on welfare or in jail. Maybe you think Job Corps should be a Fortune 500 company? It keeps kids out of jail and off the public dole that’s successful in my. FYI if you have property on Black Butte, the recent firefighting there was carried out and supported by Job Corps Wildfire Crews.
Don’t sell me that bull about Walter Reed. When the Feds were taking heat about the horrible conditions, no one said, “We’re sorry, we’re working on something new.” What if that were YOU? Would that be good enough? I don’t care if Walter Reed needed a new facility…plan accordingly, take proper care of these patients. The Walter Reed issue is disgraceful. Conservatives should be up in arms. If you can’t properly care for patients at Walter Reed send them elsewhere.
Energy policy…ever heard of “Peak Oil”? Check it out. Global warming is real and fossil fuels are limited. Conservatives are willing to believe the “evidence” about safe nuclear power, but not global warming? Wind and solar are worthy of development, Conservatives have stood in the path of it for years.
You want us to believe you understand things and are laden with “facts” and figures. How is it then that you thought liberals were behind the post-Civil War Jim Crow laws, the KKK etc.?
You claim that Conservatives give more to charities and volunteerism. As an active volunteer I’d say it’s an 80/20 split favoring liberals. Conservatives hold more wealth, they may donate more than Liberals and don’t forget the tax write offs. I could go on about Corporate Welfare vs. Public Assistance. Suffice it to say what the government puts out in social services pales in comparison to what does not go into tax coffers due to Fat Cat tax dodges. But that’s the American way, ain’t it Ken!
Firstly, I note that Mr Swipies didn’t “deal with” my list of Liberal Success Stories… why not, Mr Swipies, you wrote so much!?
Secondly, I point out his dishonesty in characterizing government employees and contractors as “dependents of the fed” – how dare you insult our police, military, fire fighters and teachers like that!
Thirdly, the World Peace that Kennedy dreamed of is stored right alongside “W”‘s “Hero’s Welcome for the Troops in Iraq” and the “Spread of Peace, Prosperity and Democracy (albeit at gunpoint) in the Middle East”, oh, yeah, and next to the Libertarian fantasy of “each man is actually… an island”.
Next: Johnson, Soros and Pelosi did not lie to the country multiple times to get the country into war and make a buck for Halliburton. Cheney and W did – they should be in jail.
“Now, once again I ask, can you name any liberal success programs?” Can’t you read? I listed about a dozen. Did you bang your head?
GOP hanging blacks??? What are you smoking Swipies?
Like many of your co-conservatives you interchange conservative and Republican as if they were synonymous and you do this to “win” a point in your ridiculous “arguments”. Do you actually believe “Liberals” lynched blacks in the South? Have you even bothered to look up “liberal” in a dictionary so you can stop making a total fool of yourself?
I actually laughed out loud when I saw you blame Clinton for the Iraq war… you guys are funny, y’know that? Clinton was also to blame for Katriona, the Great Plagues, the Mongol Invasion and the arrival of the Pox in Europe. Oh yeah, and the “recession” Bush I inherited… pleeeeeease.
Your stupidity reached its apogee however when you tried to blame Democrats and miscellaneous “liberals” for the current financial crisis – a product of “free market greed” custom cut by the likes of Reagan, Bush I and II and yes, Clinton.
Oh, then I just got tired and realized that it is cruel to laugh at a Libertarian. Thanks for the tome Swipies – I for one feel appropriately chastised. Now get out your dictionary and look up “Liberal”
Point one: I was referring to the hate speech of the left which was ignored. Why not show me the equivalent from Conservatives in wishing another dead that seem to violate their beliefs? I never said I agreed with the personalities I referred to. It was the expressions of hate from the left to which I was referring.
Point two: Are you attempting to say that Clinton did not sign into law the Iraqui Freedom Act in 1998, and that Democrats (liberals such as Kerry, and Gore) did not support it? Are you saying that when Clinton said he was planning an invasion of Iraq in 2000 that he was lying? What did Clinton do to prevent 911 after all of the warnings that such an attack was being planned in 1994, and 1996? Then you try to say that there was no recession beginning in 2000 when all economists say there was.
Now, you say you listed about a dozen succeessful liberal programs. Since when were civil rights a “program”? Since when did the right to vote become a “program”? And since when did Democrats support those rights? Was it not the Democrat Party that opposed each of the acts for those rights?
Tell me about the success of medicare, medicaid, welfare, education, social security, etc., under the control of liberals. Was it not LBJ that signed into law the Unified Budget Act of 1965 that allowed the fed to spend the Social Security money while putting IOU’s into the SS trust fund, and using the excess of the SS fund to “balance” the budget?
Halliburton. What? You are not informed enought to know that it was the Johnson family that founded KBR, and Halliburton? Actually, it was LadyBirds father. Lyndon just happened to marry into the family. However, did you miss that part where Cheney gave away 80% of his retroactive pay from Halliburton to charity? Seems like you are quite willing to give liberals a pass who profit from what you would call “greed”, or the death of others.
Don’t want to secure the borders? A recent report shows that Oregon now rates a “D” grade in caring for children. 75% of the child abuse in the State is drug related. And you want to do what to stop the flow of drugs? Do you have any idea of how many Americans are kidnapped, and killed, every year by drug cartels? This is not to mention MS13 which has 50,000 members most of whom are illegals.
What constitutional rights of yours were violated by the signing of the Patriot Act? Is not the Patriot Act based on laws already in effect by the anti-drug laws, RICO laws, and the Anti-Terrorism Law signed by Clinton in 1996? Have you ever heard of “Echelon”, and “Carnivore”, programs supported by Clinton? Do you know the story behind the arrest of Aldridge Ames, and the violation of the Constitution in that arrest?
Now, what is the basis for the current financial crises? Is it not excessive government spending? Do you think that anyone will be able to pay back the 1.8 trillion dollars in deficit this year alone, or the projected 1 trillion each year for the next ten years? Do you honestly thimk the national debt is only 10, or 11, trillion? Are you just going to ignore the cost of paying for Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid? That alone is some 40+ trillion dollars that will need to be paid out.
When it comes to the forests, it was Teddy Roosevelt that started the national parks program, not FDR. However, maybe it would serve you to look up how much CO2 is sequestered in wood products, and then ask why we are not using more of it in construction, furniture, and the like. Perhaps you would be well advised to look up how Thorium Reactors are safer, and last longer then nuclear reactors. Then you can look at how long it will take to develop the technology for solar, or wind, to replace the use of nuclear, fossil fuels, etc., if ever. Then ask yourself what good will it do if China, India, Mexico, and other “developing” countires don’t go along with it. BTW, the US is now 30% cleaner then it was 30 years ago, and we did it without Kyoto, solar, or wind. And, so far no scientist has come up with a difinitive model that shows GW is true, however, Gore, and Goldman Sacs, will make millions if not billions off it if “Cap and Trade” is passed. And you will pay for it through the higher energy costs.
Now, I don’t have the time to go through all of your other BS. All you have to do is look at Oregon, or California, and see what liberalism has done. With the recent vote to increase taxes, vehicle registration, fees, etc. Oregon is now the highest taxed State in the union, and has one of the highest unemployment rates. And then there is California. Then too, you wish to ignore reality when it comes to the fact that liberals wish to spend the earnings of others while Conservatives will spend their own. Look up some of the studies on the topic.
And then you again use false innuendo to attempt to denigrate me while abhorring the fact that others use “ad hominem” attacks towards you.
Amazing the amount of hypocrisy from the left.
Geez Ken, you’re really a piece of work, I hope something sinks in this time.
1) Hate speech – oh yeah, Liberals are just full of that stuff, keep watching Fox and you’ll get plenty of twisted and out of context sound bites, along with “unbiased” reporting. Here’s a tip, try Democracy Now sometime with Amy Goodman. Then get ready for a dose of real news. Also, listen carefully to all the Conservative pundits out there (pick your favorite) maybe you don’t think they do any “Hate Speaking” but actually that’s about all it is. They don’t wait for some Liberal to be murdered, their standard line is a constant barrage of vitriol and bile. I hope it makes you feel good to associate yourself with this crowd.
2) Sorry Ken, Iraq is Bush’s war or should I say the Bushes’ war both 1 and 2. Say what you want about Clinton and the Iraqi Freedom Act, etc. Bush pulled the trigger. He along with his cronies lied to the American public to get enough of us on board to make it seem legit, nice try Ken.
3) Soc. Sec. – also a success no matter what you say. Maybe you think LBJ misappropriated funds re: Soc.Sec. He however, did not attempt to “privatize” it and risk losing everyone’s shirt. And as far as I know IOUs get paid back.
4) Halliburton – Ken, I believe you that Lady Bird’s dad founded it, alright. However, Cheney used it as a war profiteer. So who did he give 80% of his retro pay to, the John Birch Society? Sorry, this is America you can pick the “charity” of your choice. I doubt it was the Little Sisters of the Poor. And don’t chastise me about who founded Halliburton when you think Liberals were behind the KKK…hello!
5) Secure the Borders – You claim to be a Libertarian, then how ’bout stopping this stupid War on Drugs. Our drug problems are fueled by…well, our drug problems. It’s a big business concern, you need a lot of chemicals to make Coke (the real thing)and it’s driven by the black market. It’s supply and demand Ken. Enough Americans want illegal drugs to keep it going. Let’s take care of our addiction problem and the scary drug lords will go away.
6) Forests – Ooh, swing and a miss. I meant FDR because of the CCC. What Teddy Roosevelt protected was not supposed to be available for exploitation. The CCC replanted enough trees to save some habitat and allow harvesting as well. And since you brought up TR, he was one of the Republicans that believed in Liberal values. If you recall TR was a trust buster and the bane of Rockefeller and Carnegie. Funny how in just over 100 years the Conservatives have all but gutted anti-trust law. But maybe Monopoly is your favorite game.
You also bring up Cali…they’ve got problems…and the Governor of the state is (drum roll). But I’m sure you’ll find a way to pin all of Cali’s woes on Liberals. Reagan or Nixon didn’t have anything to do with it either, right?
Yeah, I don’t want to go through all your BS either. But you know what started this whole little exchange…it was your claim that Liberals have no answers. And you know what, Liberals don’t have all the answers but they’ve had some damn good ones. You asked for successful progressive programs and they’ve been laid out for you. If you can’t accept these facts that your problem. I’m a man with 2 good legs and I’ll keep using them to move myself forward.
PS – Thorium is a lot more dangerous than the wind.
Successful Liberal Programs conveniently being ignored by Swipies who hates “Progressives” (whatever the hell they are):
The “Program” to give the Right to vote to men without property denied them by Conservatives (not Republicans necessarily, but certainly Conservatives)
The “Program” to give the Right to vote to women denied them by Conservatives
The “Program” to give the Right to vote to blacks denied them by Conservatives
The “Program” to take children out of the workplace -staunchly resisted by Conservatives
The “Program” to give protection to children in the workplace denied them by Conservatives
The “Program” to introduce Workers’ safety legislation denied by Conservatives
The “Program” to give workers the right to organize to organize – still being denied by Conservatives
The “Program” to give the accused the Right to face and cross examine the accuser in a court of law -denied by Conservatives
The “Program” to give women the right to choose (w.r.t. reproductive choice)- denied them by Conservatives
The “Program” to give the right to free university education still not considered a right by US Conservatives
The “Program” to give people the right to Universal Healthcare Coverage – still not considered a right by US Conservatives – this last one makes the US a unique disgrace amongst the developed nations of the world – unique!
The “Program” to ban Slavery – surely you don’t believe being a slaveowner is consistent with the definition of “liberal” you found in the dictionary last night, Swipies!
Clearly what you seek to do is restrict the terms of this argument so much that a) you can delude yourself that you are winning and b) no serious intellectual topics are covered – this is a time-honored and worn out ploy
Richard
And I’ve noticed you’re still mixing up “Democrat” and “Liberal” – we both know why you are doing this. Please make a clear point about Democrats – I won’t reply because I have no interest in Democrats except as the “Better of two Evils” in elections. The US political system is so corrupted that it is not worth my time to discuss.
I love talking about Liberalism though especially to Libertarians, whose sociopolitical world view was expressed perfectly last week by my three year old nephew: “Waaaa waaaa, boo hoo, nooooo me no wanna share, me, me, me, mine, s’all mine, no share boo hoo”
Sorry Shortall, you missed again as did your cohort prior to you.
Conservatives began the fight for womens rights, an end to slavery, the voting rights, etc., back in the mid 1800’s. In fact, the Democratic Party was quite conservative till the mid 60’s, and even now there are a few left such as the “Blue Dog Democrats”. However, they were also the ones who opposed equal rights.
Now, where in the Constitution is this “right” to a free university education, or the right to kill ones unborn? For abortion the liberal USSC had to create out of whole cloth a “privacy” right that is not even mentioned, and they had to distort the “privacy” right of a woman in her own home to take birth control pills (Griswold) to one of a “privacy” right to do with her body as one saw fit (Roe). And even then, not being satisfied with killing the unborn in the first trimester, they had to continue to allow the killing till the time of birth. Did not matter to them that the fetus is not a part of the womans body, it simply shares a certain limited space for a short period of time.
Now, as to the unions, where have Conservatives attempted to deny one the right to organize a union? What Conservatives now oppose is the union taking away the right to a secret ballot in voting for joining a union, or not.
Then there is your false notion of a “right” to healthcare. Why not a “right” to own a home? Want to pay for that too?
However, like most of your BS the things you are speaking of were not opposed by Conservatives. They were opposed by Democrats, and for the most part liberals now use those same “rights” in their agenda to recreate the US in an image that is foreign to the intent of the Founders.
Then too, you are speaking of Constitutional issues, not social programs to which I was referring. People who wish to live a lie then say that Bush tried to “privatize” social security. In the first place, it was just 3% of what is being taken from the worker, and it was to be used to invest in whatever they chose to invest in. In the long run it could have been a stimulus to the economy, and the returns would have been greater then the return from SS. This is a far cry from the proposal of Pelosi & Co. to take the 401K’s, and other retirement programs, and place them in the SS system under government control.
Hey, how about those drugs. Guess some think it would be a good idea to legalize them. Course, there was no drug problem till the mid-60’s with the rise of the “free love” movement, and liberalism.
As for Schwarzenberger, he is not a Conservative as many Republicans are not such as Bush, Snowe, Collins, etc.
Equally so, I am not a Libertarian. What I said was that I support some Libertarians along with others. Just not Republicans, or Democrats.
Now, in case you have not noticed I “mix up” Democrats, and liberals, simply because it is the Democrats that most often support liberal programs, and the distortion of the US Constitution. And you have yet to name one program that is a success.
Conservative “Conservatives in wishing another dead that seem to violate their beliefs”: example you wanted:
Pat Robertson suggesting that Chavez should be “taken out” ….. NEXT!
Swipies, I’m quickly losing all respect for you… I’ve asked you time and time again to stop confusing “Liberal” and “Democrat” otherwise the debate deteriorates into the absolute drivel you wrote above. If you can’t rise to the intellectual level of the debate, then you should withdraw from it or just keep on making a complete fool of yourself. I think this would be a pity – I agree with so much of what you say, especially about education (but not about abortion, all that stuff is crap).
As for the pathetic: “Now, where in the Constitution is this “right” to a free university education, or the right to kill ones unborn”… sorry mate, but the American Constitution is not and was never intended to be a compendium of ALL human rights so stop misusing it. Is this all you have?
“Now, as to the unions, where have Conservatives attempted to deny one the right to organize a union”… for God’s same man, I’m beginning to feel I’m back teaching special ed.
And now, that famous American screw up, American healthcare… the joke of the world. “Then there is your false notion of a “right” to healthcare. Why not a “right” to own a home? Want to pay for that too”…You’re already paying for it you stupid fool. I work in Healthcare – You…. are….. already…. paying…. for… it…..
And I’m sorry, but EVERY point I brought up was opposed by Conservatives… that is why they are called conservatives. You need a session in a quiet room with an intellectual and a dictionary my friend. And, I suspect, you need to “hang around” with people who are better read.
Next”
Hey, how about those drugs. Guess some think it would be a good idea to legalize them. Course, there was no drug problem till the mid-60’s with the rise of the “free love” movement, and liberalism”… “free love and liberalism” – I’ve just realized how out of your depth you are in this argument. You just throw out lumps of your favorite “nasty words” in the same sentence and hope they’ll make sense.. well they don’t Mr Swipies, so stop making a dolt of yourself. Think more, read more and write much, much less.
“And you have yet to name one program that is a success”: Friends
Mr. Swipies,
I guess we all should live in your little ideal world. That might be a kind of hard though, because who in the hell can figure out what you stand for or who you are?
I fleetingly entertained the idea that maybe, just maybe you could be convinced to look at something without horse blinders on. Obviously, I was wrong. I actually feel sorry for you, but I do take solace in the fact that you seem to hate everyone with certain amount of equality. That’s a bit Liberal of you in some twisted sense.
You keep coming up with the most bizarre takes on issues and it really does no good to engage in serious dialogue with someone of your mindset.
You have delusions about Conservatives fighting for the equal rights of women and yet you claim “Blue Dog” Dems (which equals Conservative) are against the same thing? What the…? I’d rather disagree with you if I could make sense of your position.
And Bush is not a Conservative? What the…? Dude you must be higher than a homesick angel. I could ask Dubya myself and he’d probably have enough presence of mind to verify that he’s a Conservative.
I won’t waste anymore time or energy on trying to have a meaningful discussion with you. It’s impossible –
1) You claim that the Klan as in Ku Klux was backed by Liberals.
2) You claim that Bush in not a Conservative.
3) You claim that every progressive program ever put forth is/was a failure.
4) You claim that Conservatives are not opposed to union organizations. I’ve been on both sides of the bargaining table re: union contracts. Trust me Conservatives do not support unions.
5) You do not believe healthcare is a right. Fine, that may be a stretch re: “…life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness…” and all. But for crying out loud, if you were in a car wreck and needed medical attention, I’d sure as hell hope you had a right to care, as opposed to dying on the highway. And by the way, I’d work to keep your ass alive in that situation because it’s the right thing to do.
6) Privatizing Soc. Sec., Swipies, having people invest in the stock market that are not qualified to do so with any amount of their Soc. Sec. is a BAD idea. Even the smartest investors have taken a beating as of late, come on…this isn’t about – oh a Conservative is smarter than a Liberal at investing, it’s about unnecessary risk and not tampering with financial guarantees (sounds a bit Conservative doesn’t it?).
7) You claim there was no drug problem before the 60’s. There have been serious drug problems since the end of the Civil War. Morphine was “king” then, it’s just wears a different face as time goes on.
I will say a prayer for you now. Even though you are some kind of mixed up Conservative (I think) you are still a human being. As misguided as you seem to be (at least to me and a few others) you need a blessing from the Divine. There is something in your past that makes you lash out at Liberals. I don’t know what it is, but I’m certain it is not healthy. You don’t have to like things such as the Peace Corps, the Job Corps, Social Security or any of the other programs FDR put in place to help everyday Americans. But at least understand that these ideas, and institutions were put in place to help folks. These things were enacted by the motivation to do the right thing. You may not agree with that, but at least understand it. I’m sorry you seem to think that Liberals are evil. Just remember it’s people like myself, who would defend without hesistation, your right to disagree. Sadly, Conservatives are not on the same page. God bless and help you.
Robertson apologized for his comment:
“Is it right to call for assassination? No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill him.”
Has any liberal done so for their calls for the death of others?
Got any other examples?
“The US political system is so corrupted that it is not worth my time to discuss.”
Yet Shortall wears out keyboards doing just that. Over 1000 words on this thread alone and certain to go higher because, like a petulant child, he can’t stand not having the last word.
Jiggles!! You’re back!
Got nothing better to do than count (using a computer no doubt, so as to circumvent your “problem” with numbers). So, here’s my last word(s)… “you’re right”
Swipies…. you asked for an example… I provided one… you said he apologized, big deal… now you want another example. Now do you see why you’re impossible to debate with?
Mr Jasper, I agree with every single word you said to Swipies… conservative think tanks have worked extremely hard over the last three decades to degrade the language of debate so badly that it is impossible for the two sides (or the “three” sides if you count Swipies’ stance) to have a cogent debate on any serious topic. I see little point in it, but here’s one thing I have notices… face to face their arguments fall apart like crumble at the first sign of opposition and all they’re left with is the ad hominem. For some (eg Jegglie, the ad hominem is ALL they have). I think it was Socrates who said: “a life unexamined is not worth living” – to me an unexamined life is one spent tangled up in conservative “thoughts” that are barely distinguishable from hatred, selfishness, meanness, greed and anger.
Shortall, Socrates also said other things such as “Once made equal to man, woman becomes his superior”, and this “Well I am certainly wiser than this man. It is only too likely that neither of us has any knowledge to boast of; but he thinks that he knows something which he does not know, whereas I am quite conscious of my ignorance. At any rate it seems that I am wiser than he is to this small extent, that I do not think that I know what I do not know.”
Richard Shortall said:
“Swipies…. you asked for an example… I provided one… you said he apologized, big deal… now you want another example. Now do you see why you’re impossible to debate with?”
Not at all. Like all of your “examples” they are far from the truth of th ematter. In the case of Robertson, he had an interview in which the issue being discussed was the actions of Chavez which threatened the US security, and the allegation that the US was attempting to assasinate him. Robertson, in a moment of frustration made the comment “maybe we should accomodate him”. Course, liberals made quite the big deal out of this.
This pales in comparison to what liberal bloggers, and others, are saying in regards to Conservatives, and never apologize for.
And that is why people such as yourself cannot rationally debate a subject. You have only one prism to look through.
Richard Shortall said:
“Mr Jasper, I agree with every single word you said to Swipies… conservative think tanks have worked extremely hard over the last three decades to degrade the language of debate so badly that it is impossible for the two sides (or the “three” sides if you count Swipies’ stance) to have a cogent debate on any serious topic. I see little point in it, but here’s one thing I have notices… face to face their arguments fall apart like crumble at the first sign of opposition and all they’re left with is the ad hominem. For some (eg Jegglie, the ad hominem is ALL they have). I think it was Socrates who said: “a life unexamined is not worth living” – to me an unexamined life is one spent tangled up in conservative “thoughts” that are barely distinguishable from hatred, selfishness, meanness, greed and anger.”
I’d love to meet with all of you “face to face”. I tried to meeet with the editors of this newspaper, even told them when I would be there. None showed up.
Would you?
Thank you Swipies for the Socrates quote – it fits you like a glove…. ha ha
Finally, and I mean finally… there is absolutely NO WAY I would show up to meet and debate with you Mr Swipies. This is not just out of concern for my personal safety but I have really important things to do with my spare time like cut my toenails. I find you amusing and I enjoy toying with you in this low level ratiocination but I have always found people like you to be dull and uninspiring company – I do not care to mix with the dull witted, the unschooled and the bigoted. In short… it is NOT… a date
Mr. Shortall, I knew your answer before I posted my challenge. You have the right to say what you wish. You can denigrate another all you want. You can even use all of the ad hominem attacks you wish while whining about others doing so.
However, just as Gore, Obama, and others of your ilk, have not the courage of their convictions to debate another face to face, unless it is with one as ill informed as they, I will just add that to the list of weaknesses in the “liberal” makeup.
BTW, if you intend to claim the same liberal status as the Founders then it must be said that it is you who supports slavery, denying a woman the right to vote, allowing only white men who own property the right to vote, etc. For that is the way they set the country up.
You must have a hard time living with yourself with all of that fear you harbor.
“BTW, if you intend to claim the same liberal status as the Founders then it must be said that it is you who supports slavery, denying a woman the right to vote, allowing only white men who own property the right to vote, etc. For that is the way they set the country up:” 1. You don’t know what a “Liberal” is as you have refused to look it up. 2. This latest silly input (or is it output) of yours is also a non sequitur.
“You must have a hard time living with yourself with all of that fear you harbor” Non sequitur – referring to nothing in any of the arguments cited – yawn.
I thought when you said “Finally, and I mean finally” that was what you meant, lol
“You claim there was no drug problem before the 60’s. There have been serious drug problems since the end of the Civil War. Morphine was “king” then, it’s just wears a different face as time goes on.”
Not true. Prior to the 60’s the “drug problem” was limited to “beatniks”, entertainers, and other groups relatively small in number. With the advent of the 60’s “free love” society we saw an expansion of the drug problem to the point where we now have a drug problem with kids in the second grade.
“I will say a prayer for you now. Even though you are some kind of mixed up Conservative (I think) you are still a human being.”
Were you not the one that said you were not a believer?
“These things were enacted by the motivation to do the right thing.”
Isn’t there an old saying about the road to hell being lined with good intentions?
“Just remember it’s people like myself, who would defend without hesistation, your right to disagree. Sadly, Conservatives are not on the same page.”
Show me where a Conservative has tried to stifle the free speech of others. Or is it the Democrats, aka “liberals”, the people you support, who have tried to reintroduce the “Fairness Doctrine”, introduced laws that make any opposition to homosexuality “hate speech” especially with Pastors, proposed public financing for “alternative” radio programming since Air America and other attempts by “liberals” to establish “progressive” programs have failed so miserably, etc.?
You hate Fox News yet they consistently gather more viewers then any of the programs you would support.
My ancestors would have called you “one that speaks with forked tongue”.
Er Swipies… you’ve gone and mixed me up with Mr Jasper in your last “response”…. I didn’t say any of these things. Clearly you’re flailing around in the darkness of your profound ignorance and striking out at random.
I don’t “hate” Fox news either – best fantasy and comedy on TV. Also, “ratings” do not prove quality. Well, maybe for you.
As for “programs” could you please elaborate on what exactly you mean by “program” – you’re a bit vague.
I see you still like to use “liberal” and “Democrat” interchangably – there’s just no educating you, is there. Bet you heard that a lot in school!
I’ll give you this much, at least you’re persistant. But so is mold.
And my ancestors would have called you an ignorant gobshite!
Richard Shortal said:
“I don’t “hate” Fox news either – best fantasy and comedy on TV. Also, “ratings” do not prove quality. Well, maybe for you.”
And for sposors of different programs which is why Air America, and other “liberal” programming consistently fails.
And, considering your comment on Fox News it is certainly obvious you do “hate” it.
“As for “programs” could you please elaborate on what exactly you mean by “program” – you’re a bit vague.”
Actually, I have been quite clear on it. It is only your arrogance, and ignorance, that prevents you from seeing it which seems to be a common plight for your limited intellect.
Fighting for freedom as the Founders did is not a “program”. It is a quest, agenda, or whatever. And even if you would like it to be a government “program” since you have no successes to point at you just use them like you twist the meaning of a “liberal” in 1800 to equate that to what a “liberal” is today.
A government program would be as has been discussed previously. Welfare, Farm Aid, Medicare, SCHIPS, corporate welfare, etc. Those are programs.
Hopefully your pitiful mind can understand that now.
“I see you still like to use “liberal” and “Democrat” interchangably – there’s just no educating you, is there. Bet you heard that a lot in school!”
Yeah I know. A 3.6 average is just plain being stupid. Having said that, you may be correct in that there is nothing “liberal” about the Democratic Party in a traditional sense of the meaning of liberal, and never has been.
As an example, and one I used before, it is alleged that the “liberal” (according to the dictionary definition) is one that is “favorable to individual liberty, social reform, and removal of economic restraints). Yet the modern “liberal”, most often associated with the Democratic Party, would deny all of these attributes to the people. They are not interested in individual liberty, only the collective. They are not interested in social reform, only in controlling the masses through social programs. They do not eliminate economic restraints. Instead they increase those restraints through regulation, and taxation.
“I’ll give you this much, at least you’re persistant. But so is mold.”
Unlike people like you, mold can be easily eradicated with a little cleansing agent. People such as yourself with your arrogance, ignorance, and persistent reliance on personal attacks, seem to continue to survive just like the cockroach.
“And my ancestors would have called you an ignorant gobshite!”
Yet you cannot refute any point this “gobshite” has made. Have to wonder what is lower then a “gobshite”.
Air America and “liberal”… sorry I can’t debate this with you but I don’t listen to AA and you don’t know what a liberal is. So what would be the point.
There are two things one is guaranteed to et from tighty-whitey-righties eventually: first is “well’n why don’ ya jus’ leave the cuntrie if’n’ya hate it so much!?”
and the second is the “IRONIC intellect insult” usually expressed in a badly wrought proto-sentence: “Actually, I have been quite clear on it. It is only your arrogance, and ignorance, that prevents you from seeing it which seems to be a common plight for your limited intellect. Oh dear
There are two other things one eventually gets: third is “I’m richer’n you” and fourth is this:
“Yeah I know. A 3.6 average is just plain being stupid. Having said that, you may be correct in that there is nothing “liberal” about the Democratic Party in a traditional sense of the meaning of liberal, and never has been” I may be. That’s right.
And here you are proving your own point about the American Education system Swipies…. if YOU got a 3.6 average then there really is a big problem with the grading standards and you are correct in saying IT IS JUST BEING PLAIN STUPID. There is no indication in any of your comments of an education standard above the 50th centile. None. Why, it took weeks for you to even look up and misunderstand “liberal”… Yes, you’re the proof, the education system needs overhauling.
Now, as to the “failure” of Medicare…. alleged… what is your suggestion for an alternative. We’re all waiting for the Compassionate Conservative with Answers.
What do you mean by “program” and please define “liberal” also please define the main differences between the various types of “liberals” in your new classification system.
“Unlike people like you, mold can be easily eradicated with a little cleansing agent. People such as yourself with your arrogance, ignorance, and persistent reliance on personal attacks, seem to continue to survive just like the cockroach” How very right wing of you Swipies
Richard Shortall said:
“Air America and “liberal”… sorry I can’t debate this with you but I don’t listen to AA and you don’t know what a liberal is. So what would be the point.”
Air America went bankrupt, and is on few stations. There is one in Portland, I think it is KPOJ, that still airs their programs. Ed Schultz, Randy Rhodes, etc., are their main characters.
BTW, how many times will I have to explain to you the difference between the “liberal” of today, and the “liberal” of the 1700’s before you understand?
“There are two things one is guaranteed to et from tighty-whitey-righties eventually: first is “well’n why don’ ya jus’ leave the cuntrie if’n’ya hate it so much!?”
So, why do you stay?
“and the second is the “IRONIC intellect insult” usually expressed in a badly wrought proto-sentence: …. Oh dear”
I guess when you called me stupid, or whatever, you were being so “intellectual”.
There are two other things one eventually gets: third is “I’m richer’n you” and fourth is this:
“Yeah I know. A 3.6 average is just plain being stupid. Having said that, you may be correct in that there is nothing “liberal” about the Democratic Party in a traditional sense of the meaning of liberal, and never has been” I may be. That’s right.
“Why, it took weeks for you to even look up and misunderstand “liberal”… Yes, you’re the proof, the education system needs overhauling.”
Again you lie. I ws proving your interpretation of what a “liberal” is to be in error long before I went to the dictionary just to prove how foolish you are.
Now, why do you not address the points I made about how your “liberal” is not the same as that of the Founders?
“Now, as to the “failure” of Medicare…. alleged… what is your suggestion for an alternative. We’re all waiting for the Compassionate Conservative with Answers.”
Quite simple if you had ever bothered to do any real research on the topic. Medicare costs 35% more to provide care for its recipients then its private counterpart. And since Medicare only provides 80% of the debt acquired by the recipient it places any recipient in deeper debt. Furthermore, there are many medications not covered by Medicare part D, and this adds to the debt of the recipient.
“What do you mean by “program” and please define “liberal” also please define the main differences between the various types of “liberals” in your new classification system.”
Already did all of that. Go back and read what I said before.
“How very right wing of you Swipies”
And comparing me to mold was so what???????
“And comparing me to mold was so what??????” Er… sooooo Horticultural
“So, why do you stay” SO WHY DID YOU INVITE ME TO LEAVE? It’s my right to stay here, I pay taxes, and there’s not a thing you can do about it
“Air America went bankrupt, and is on few stations. There is one in Portland, I think it is KPOJ, that still airs their programs. Ed Schultz, Randy Rhodes, etc., are their main characters” … Yawn, I don’t care
“BTW, how many times will I have to explain to you the difference between the “liberal” of today, and the “liberal” of the 1700’s before you understand” Yawn, I don’t get paid to educate dolts – you’re a bore
“Again you lie. I ws proving your interpretation of what a “liberal” is to be in error long before I went to the dictionary just to prove how foolish you are” “you lie, you lie, blah blah” BOY YOU ARE A BORE
Now get a life you boring, insignificant little man, I’ve grown bored of being called a liar.
“SO WHY DID YOU INVITE ME TO LEAVE? It’s my right to stay here, I pay taxes, and there’s not a thing you can do about it”
The question isn’t if you have the right to stay. The question is since you hate the country so much why do you stay?
“Yawn, I don’t get paid to educate dolts – you’re a bore”
Typical “liberal” response when they have no answer.
“Now get a life you boring, insignificant little man, I’ve grown bored of being called a liar.”
Then I would suggest you quit lying, and regurgitating your BS, and perhaps offer some intelligent responses.
zzzzzz yawn, boooorrring, loser! But you know, you’re actually RIGHT all along, how could we have missed it?
Please explain how Bush II inherited a recession from Clinton.
Please differentiate for us the differences between the “Classical Liberalism” of Jefferson and what you term “New Liberalism” and explain which of these two fulfill the criteria for “liberalism” listed in the dictionary.
A moral question based on your factoid: “I did not support the invasion of Iraq which, just for his information, was formulated by Clinton in 1998 with the signing of the Iraqui Freedom Act”. Who is more morally culpable: Clinton for drawing up a war plan or Bush II for invading Iraq after a campaign of lies and killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis?
When you asked for ONE example of a Conservative that suggested killing and Mr Shortall said Robertson – how is it relevant that Robertson later apologized….
I’ve just realized I have another 20 questions like this on my other screen and it’ll take too long – so start with these Mr. Swipies