This week’s letter comes from Elsan Zimmerly who makes a compelling case for rethinking health care, a topic that’s gotten a lot of attention and not enough intelligent discussion recently. Thanks for your well written and researched letter Elsan. You can pick up your winner’s prize, a bag of Strictly Organic coffee, at our office, 704 NW Georgia, anytime this week.
What do Congressional opponents of a public health care option have in common? My guess is they didn’t go to kindergarten – they never learned to share. They have something they value and covet but won’t share. Sounds selfish. Send them all back to kindergarten.
Okay, health care is a serious subject. What is stunning in this whole debate is that not only Congress enjoys government-subsidized health care, many of the already insured are government employees who also have the same plan as Congress. Yes, the federal government is the largest employer in the US. The largest employer by far. Total the remaining top ten employers and the feds are still #1.
Federal employees worldwide total about 6 million people. Add Medicare, Medicaid, retirees, the Veterans Administration, Indian Health Services, State government employees, local government employees and you wind up with a whopping 100 million people. That’s a chunk of our population that right now enjoys a US government health care plan. Stunning! Is it such a stretch to include the remainder of Americans?
We agree the status quo cannot continue. It’s destroying Americans at a rapid pace. More than 1/2 of all bankruptcies are due to medical expenses and this includes people with insurance believing they were covered. Emergency rooms are consistently overflowing with patients who should be in a family doctor’s office. Doctors are dissatisfied with the treatment demanded of them by insurance companies. People are disgusted with the care they receive or rather don’t receive. When dealing with a critical illness such as cancer, stroke, heart attack – the most stressful time in life – people find themselves in the deplorable situation of arguing and defending necessary treatments with a clerk in an insurance company. A person trained and compensated for the greatest number of denials issued.
The US Federal Employee health care program includes private insurance plans that are government administered, sponsored and subsidized. People cannot be dropped anytime for anything. The government pays about 75% of each employee’s premium. It’s a program that began in 1960 and is the largest employer-sponsored group health insurance program in the world. It works. Not perfectly but show me perfect in this world.
Much criticism hovers around fear that the public option is socialized medicine. Socialized medicine means doctors and hospitals work for the government. The public option is not socialized medicine. The US does, in fact, have several socialized medicine programs – the Veterans Administration, Armed Services and Public Health Service.
The Canadian health care system is often used as an example of socialized medicine. Simply, untrue. It is not socialized medicine. It is socialized health insurance. Similar to our Medicare, the Canadian government pays for medical care provided by the private sector, mostly not-for-profit. Being not-for-profit is a major distinction and displays a higher road taken. Greed drives our health care system. Caring for and healing the ill, the sick, the weak, the elderly for a huge profit, for the benefit of shareholders’ wealth – what kind of a society allows and encourages such a system?
The health insurance program in place that 100 million Americans, including Congress, benefit from is a system that the rest of Americans should have and can have. The ball is in our court. We asked for it during the 2000 campaign. Now, let’s demand it.
Elsan Zimmerly, Redmond
This article appears in Sep 24-30, 2009.
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Makes me wonder if you got out of “kindergarten”.
Republicans tried to get an amendment to require that congressional members accept the same insurance as what was passed. Democrats voted it down.
Having said that, have you even bothered to take a rational look at the health care programs in other countries, including Canada, and how they are failing, and how they are requiring many to buy private insurance? Lou Dobbs did a series on it taking one country each night. You might want to look at his conclusions.
Did you notice how the Democrats have also refused to pass legislation requiring Congressional members to actually read a bill before voting on it?
What I notice in your letter is your ignoring Republican alternatives such as tort reform, interstate competition between States, etc. Also ignored is one of the reasons why insurance cost is so high such as the 35 mandates Oregon has instituted such as pregnancy insurance regardless of age. Other mandates around the country such as birth control insurance add to the cost.
I should also inform you that the VA is failing in its coverage. My brother is a retired disable Vietnam vet. It took him two years to get an MRI following a stroke. Other cases I know of such as testing for renal kidney failure are not done. Also, the VA requires that a veteran present any insurance they may have such as Medicare, or private insurance, and that entity is then billed for the care given by the VA.
No system is perfect, and reform is needed. I just don’t think another government program is the answer, and especially when the number used to show how many are currently uninsured is a farce.
The Republican “alternative”, trap, is “Don’t Get Sick, And If You Do Die Quick”. Lou Dobbs!? Sheez, it makes me wonder if you got out of “kindergarten”.
Been hearing that from Democrats since 1994 Ware. And the liar that said that on the floor of the House recently apologized. But you were fool enough to repeat it.
Excellent letter Elsan – many on the Loony Right will find your letter hard to read – ha ha, no, I don’t mean because they aren’t such good readers, but you’re not far off there either – you did an excellent job of highlighting the real reason why the so-called debate on this subject is so ridiculous and has evoked such emotional and irrational responses from the nation’s conservative underbelly – for a nation to get proper healthcare (remember, the US ranks 37th in the world but we pay the most) a nation must have even a rudimentary understanding of the concept of “the common good” – this has been deliberately eradicated from the “minds” of literally millions of Americans because the notion of “the common good” is against the interests of the richest people in a nation. The recent economic collapse has shown us all (well, those of us who can think, at any rate) where the priorities of the wealthy lie and where their “talents” lie.
It’s time for Americans to stop being suckers for the wealthy. Maybe we should take a page from the “healthcare system” books of countries with exemplary systems: France, Italy, Germany, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark…… etc.
You callin’ me a Liar, boy?
You got balls enough to meet me on the greensward at Drake Park tomorrow morning at daybreak?
Ware, you are a leftwing loonie so naturally you are loose with the truth.
However, if you were intelligent enough to understand you would realize I was calling you a fool for believing the lies of others.
Now, if you want to discuss the issues of the letter, or my response, you are welcome to do so.
I’ll let you know the next time I am in Bend.
I don’t think the Source should publish letters in which one person calls everyone who disagrees with him/her a “liar” – it’s too ignorant, rude, inflammatory and leads to situations in which normally sensible peopel like Mr. Ware get angry. I believe some contributors do this to deliberately irritate others. We’ve had a couple months of “liar” this and “liar” that – it’s wearing thin.
Jeez, think differently than Ware and he wants to kick your ass in the park? Doesn’t sound sensible to me. Sounds downright juvinile.
Please everyone. Name calling (and disagreement) is unacceptable. It may cause “normally sensible” and highly evolved people to kick your ass which, to some, is a completely understandable reaction. Hmm.
In fairness Weekly Reader… look back over the letters since Krazy Ken the Krackdown Man from Kennebunkport descended upon us and lowered to tone of every discussion in which he participated by calling everyone who disagreed with him a “liar” (he used many other derogatory names). If you do this you will see that it was he (or she) who initiated this trend towards inappropriate aggressive talk: we were ‘invited’ to “meet with him” if we dare; and to “come hunt him” if we had what it takes – he left us all in no doubt that he could “take us all on” – this is why I direct no comments directly at him/her. There is clearly a high level of psychopathology and disfunctional family dynamics at play here and no source argument is worth the risk of dealing with unsavory types.
How funny that it is Shortall who is calling for more civility and fair play on these boards. Shortall, how do you feel about the Source posting writings by people who denigrate others for inferior intellect if they don’t agree with the “enlightened” Shortall viewpoint. Certainly would be the end of your journalistic career.
Off the point again Juggs,
I have not denigrated anyone for having an inferior intellect – even if I felt they had one – I merely pointed out how and where they had demonstrated by their writings that they had an inferior intellect. I can’t be held responsible if certain parties insist on demonstrating their primitive thinking to all and sundry and as we all had to endure 8 years of coarse bullying while the Nazi Party of America was in power under Bush II (The Lesser) and the Cheney Gang I see no reason to put up with it now that democracy is attempting to make a comeback to the United States. I hope that helps.
Mr. Shortall, I would suggest you go back and look at your first responses to my first letter in which I did not even participate. There were all denigration which I posted before. And, if you would quit your lying, and denigration, one could honestly discuss a matter. However, when you have no answers it is most often you act like a “gobshite”.
Now, during the 8 years of “bullying”, just who was it that was doing so? Was it not your leftwing press, and groups such as CodePink, MoveOn.org, etc.?
The same is true today. You speak of “democracy”. Why is it then that when over 60% of the people oppose your idea of healthcare reform you refuse to listen, as do your leaders? Why is it that the Democrats want to bend the rules to get their ideas through even if they do not have a 60% majority as was required under Bush?
Perhaps, if you want an intelligent discussion, if it is possible for you, you could explain where the country is going to get the needed 90,000 doctors that will be required under the currently proposed leftwing loonie program? Most of the countries you admire have around 1 doctor for every 300 individuals. The US currently has 1 for every 416. With the current leftwing controlled education system pumping out more dropouts then educated people, and when the desire of the young is to get what they can for nothing as it is for many of the adults in your sphere, where are we to get the necessary medical personell?
Care to try and address something of substance for a change?
So is it just me or did I “NOT” read one single reference to either political party directly by name in the original letter? So sad that the first response right off went into political finger pointing and it seems every following letter followed the same name game. I really don’t care what side of the line you stand on, we need to fix the health care for the people. This us and them is ripping the country apart and we do nothing but help fuel the fire. Face it, if one side “wins” (and not just the health care issues but the country’s issues in general) then everyone is going lose. The issue is heath care and the individuals in the parties (as in all of us) need to work for the goal and not the affiliation. The finger pointing and name calling is for crazy people screaming from electronic soapboxes.
“this is why I direct NO comments DIRECTLY at him/her. There is clearly a high level of psychopathology and disfunctional family dynamics at play here and no source argument is worth the risk of dealing with unsavory types”
ktg says:
So is it just me or did I “NOT” read one single reference to either political party directly by name in the original letter? So sad that the first response right off went into political finger pointing and it seems every following letter followed the same name game. I really don’t care what side of the line you stand on, we need to fix the health care for the people. This us and them is ripping the country apart and we do nothing but help fuel the fire. Face it, if one side “wins” (and not just the health care issues but the country’s issues in general) then everyone is going lose. The issue is heath care and the individuals in the parties (as in all of us) need to work for the goal and not the affiliation. The finger pointing and name calling is for crazy people screaming from electronic soapboxes”
Sorry kig, I guess that when the original op stated that the federal employees, and members of Congress, were receiving a well endowed healthcare program that it would be appropriate to mention that the Republicans had introduced legislation to insure that they accepted the same plan as what was offered to the people, and that Democrats had voted it down. Sorry if that little fact upset you, and others such as ShortInAll, however, it is a fact.
Now, perhaps if ShortInAll cared to really discuss a topic, which he avoids like the plague, maybe you can explain where the extra 90,000 needed doctors are going to come from, or any of the other issues I brought up in my reply which the author ignored, as has everyone else. Shorty just went into his usual tirade without addressing any, and you have done the same.
I know facts scare the heck out of you, and others, however, they are still relevant if one wants an honest discussion.
And, it is equally relevant as to which party introduces what. One needs to know which group is acting in their best interests, and how they are doing so. One of the reasons why so many corrupt politicians are now in office is due to the fact that the general public is so ignorant of what is going on, and who is doing what. Kind of like Carter stating race played an overwhelming factor in the opposition of Obama, and then later stating he did not say that. That is a politicians trick that has succeeded for many, and needs to be exposed.
BTW, Shorty doesn’t respond to my post because he hates being shown up for the ignorant pervert he really is. I don’t really know if he is a pervert, however, he doesn’t know if Kenneth is the name of a male, or female, so one could assume he is a pervert.
who disagrees with him/her a “liar” or a “pervert” – it’s too ignorant, white-trashy, rude, inflammatory and leads to situations in which normally sensible peopel like Mr. Ware get angry. I believe some contributors do this to deliberately irritate others. We’ve had a couple months of “liar” this and “liar” that, “pervert” this and “pervert” that – it’s wearing thin.
What’s “wearing thin”, or at least with anyone with a rational mind rather then the diminuitive psychotic disorder you constantly present, is your seemingly overbloated ego which makes you feel you can denigrate anyone you wish without challenge.
As for Ware, he has the same bloated ego you have. In my response to him I never called him a liar. What I said, if you had the ability to read what was written, was “And the liar that said that on the floor of the House recently apologized. But you were fool enough to repeat it”. Of course, people like you,and Ware, will look for any excuse to express your hatred (or demonstrate your “manhood”) of those who are more informed then you which can be exemplified by your constant denigration of others, and refusal to address any of the points I made that the original poster had ignored.
Of course, since truth is not something you excel in, nor are you concerned about, your post is again in true form considering your mental state exhibiting symptoms of BPD, or egocentricity, perhaps as a result of some harmful childhood experiences, or brain dysfunction.
If you are not already seeking mental health counselling may I suggest you do so for the safety of yourself, and your family, if you have one.
Other then that, you might try engaging me in a discussion of the flaws in the original OP, and avoid the childish behaviour you seem to enjoy.
What’s “wearing thin”, THIN! or at least with anyone with a rational RATIONAL mind rather then the diminuitive DIMINUITIVE!!!! psychotic disorder you constantly present, is your seemingly overbloated B-L-O-A-T-E-D ego which makes you feel you can denigrate anyone you wish without challenge FEEL, FEEL.
As for Ware, MR WARE he has the same bloated ego you have 2 BLOATED EGOS!. In my response to him I never called him a liar NEVER, NEVER. What I said, if you had the ability to read what was written, was “And the liar that said that on the floor of the House recently apologized. But you were fool enough to repeat it”. Of course, people like you,and Ware, will look for any excuse to express your hatred HATRED EXPRESSED SSSSSSSSS (or demonstrate your “manhood” DIMINUITIVE) of those who are more informed then you which can be exemplified by your constant denigration of others DENIGRATION, and refusal to address any of the points I made that the original poster had ignored OH, TO BE IGNORED.
Of course, since truth is not something you excel in GELLIN’ EXCELLIN, nor are you concerned about, your post is again in true form considering your mental state exhibiting symptoms of BPD BEE PEE DEE, or egocentricity ELECTRICITY OF THE EGO, perhaps as a result of some harmful childhood experiences 2ND HAND, or brain dysfunction THIS FUNCTION.
If you are not already seeking mental health counselling may I suggest you do so for the safety of yourself, and your family, if you have one HAVE.
Other then that, you might try engaging me in a discussion of the flaws in the original OP, and avoid the childish behaviour you seem to enjoy TEE HEE.
I feel some people do a lot of hooting and screaming about a slowly disintegrating country with a patently unsustainable “dream”:
Healthcare system ranked 37th in the world – though most expensive – go figure.
Human development index “best country to live in” ranking:
1. Norway
2. Australia
3. Iceland
4. Canada
5. Ireland
6. Netherlands
7. Sweden
8. France
9. Switzerland
10. Japan
11. Luxembourg
12. Finland
13. United States
Lucky 13th.
Shorty, you’re more fun then shooting fish in a barrel, lol
Now, I must admit that at times I get bored with your rants, however, late at night, or sometimes during the day, when I have nothing better to do, and get bored, your infantile conniptions always serve to remind me of why some say liberalism is a mental disorder.
Now, one must admit that while you regurtiatate your tirades it is obvious they are directed at me even with your denials of addressing me directly. Aside from your delusional fantasy “friends”, reminiscent of trips on LSD, who else could they be directed at?
Why, when one reads such a treatise they could think of a whole cornucopia of psychotic illnesses to the extent of infinity. The possibilities are endless, and a satisfactory treatment is possibly unattainable.
Take your meds dear boy, sleep, and dream of better places.
Now, one must admit that while you regurtiatate your tirades it is obvious they are directed at me even with your denials of addressing me directly. Aside from your delusional fantasy “friends”, reminiscent of trips on LSD, who else could they be directed at?
As usual, Shortall unwittingly undermines his own credibility. Providing some hokey list of the supposed best places to live is great. However,choosing to move to and live in #13 and complaining about it makes him look like a fool.
Thanks Jiggles, for your high quality and keenly anticupated input.
Here’s some of what you really like to hear….
“As usual, Shortall unwittingly undermines his own credibility. Providing some hokey list of the supposed best places to live is great. However,choosing to move to and live in #13 and complaining about it makes him look like a fool”
And don’t forget… there’s more than one reason to live in the US – mine, well, let’s say this is not the appropriate forum to advertise mine…. hahahahahahahahaha
And Mr. Jiggles, the man with only one thing to say, here’s another list for you… at least you’re consistant….14th this time, in Scientific Literacy of the population.
# 1 Korea, South: 552
# 2 Japan: 550
# 3 Finland: 538
# 4 United Kingdom: 532
# 5 Canada: 529
= 6 Australia: 528
= 6 New Zealand: 528
# 8 Austria: 519
# 9 Ireland: 513
# 10 Sweden: 512
# 11 Czech Republic: 511
= 12 France: 500
= 12 Norway: 500
# 14 United States: 499
Those damn Frenchies!!! And to think their health system was rakned No 1 in the world. But isn’t it much easier to just keep saying “we’re No.1, we’re No.1, there’s no place like home, there’s no place like home, where ARE my blinkers, damn it?”
That Matrix must be real comfy there Jiggles, real comfy.
LOL
More people immigrate to the America than to any other country. Every body that does so has a reason for doing so.
Shortall wants us to believe he has some mysterious set of reasons for having CHOSEN to come to the United States, a nation about which he has never had one good thing to say. Is he a foreign intelligence agent? Placement in little old Central Oregon is good cover, but I can’t imagine the collection is going very well. From an earlier post, maybe he in implying he is smooth with the ladies and he has already played the field where ever he is from. hahahahahahahahaha not likely.
Wild assed guesses aside, we are left to draw our own conclusions.
Time to call Shortall down on the health care issue. He squeezes in a “37th ranked outcome/first in cost” rant into many of his posts. He has also stated he works in the American health care system, meaning he profits from a mediocre system (his words, not mine) to which he is a contributing factor. I bet he even came to this country because under whatever socialist system of medicine his homeland deploys, he would not make nearly as much money as he does in the good ol’ USA.
Shortall is a hypocrite professing socialist ideals but practicing capitalist actions. He is here for higher wages, lower taxes, and greater personal freedom. He cuts a pathetic figure attempting to make us believe otherwise.
I’m done with this one. Time for Shortall’s low quality and keenly anticipated last word, because we all know he has to have it.
Time to call Shortall down on the health care issue. He squeezes in a “37th ranked outcome/first in cost” YUP rant into many of his posts. He has also stated he works in the American health care system YUP, SURE DO, meaning he profits from a mediocre system YUP AGIN (his words, not mine) to which he is a contributing factor YUP, Y’GOT ME. I bet he even came to this country because under whatever socialist system of medicine his homeland deploys, he would not make nearly as much money YUP… TRUE ‘NUFF as he does in the good ol’ USA. YUP… GOOD OL
Shortall is a hypocrite professing socialist ideals YUP, AH DO TOO but practicing capitalist actions YUP. He is here for higher wages, lower taxes, YUP and greater personal freedom EH, SORRY, BUT THIS IS DEFINITELY A NOPE – THE US IS A POLICE STATE – NEVER TRAVELED HAVE YOU JIGGLES. He cuts a pathetic figure attempting to make us believe otherwise. YUP – YURE BELIEFS ARE PARAMOUNT T’ME, YUP.
LAST WORD… YUP
More people immigrate to the America than to any other country. Every body that does so has a reason for doing so.
But:……. Wiki Canada
“In 2001, 250,640 people immigrated to Canada. Based on the Canada 2001 Census total population of 30,007,094 people, immigration represented 0.834% population growth that year. On a compounded basis, that immigration rate represents 8.7% population growth over 10 years, or 23.1% over 25 years (or 6.9 million people). Since 2001, immigration has ranged between 221,352 and 262,236 immigrants per annum.[8] According to Canada’s Immigration Program (October 2004) Canada has the highest PER CAPITA immigration rate in the world,[9] although statistics in the CIA World Factbook show that a number of city states and small island nations, as well as some larger countries in regions with refugee movements, have higher per capita rates”
“Shortall wants us to believe he has some mysterious set of reasons for having CHOSEN to come to the United States, a nation about which he has never had one good thing to say.NOT TRUE… GOOD SKIING Is he a foreign intelligence agent? Placement in little old Central Oregon is good cover, but I can’t imagine the collection “COLLECTION”????? is going very well. From an earlier post, maybe he in implying he is smooth with the ladies ?????? WTF ??????? and he has already played the field where ever he is from IN WHICH CASE… LUCKY ME. hahahahahahahahaha HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH not likely TRUE ENOUGH.
Nice Matrix, nice Matrix.
So what I find interesting is that we all pay about 20% in payroll expenses to support the current flawed health care system. So if we ousted the private health insurance companies who make a profit off of us as if we are are disposable merchandise then the America economy would boom. We could instead pay another 1-2% in taxes and have money to save for retirement, educate our kids and mimic Norway, Canada, Cuba and other countries with superior health care. At current we are not making any real progress.
People that listen to Rush, Lars, Bill O”Lielly and Sean Insanity Hannity are the majority of uneducated and simply retarded people that make up most of the votes for the republicans and are easily brainwashed into the garbage of socialism and communism. Based on those two philosophies we could argue that the Bush eras were the two most socialistic times in America as they gave away Trillions of dollars to companies to help them instead of the people of this great nation. The point is that these fear mongers and dangerous and it is time we start to boycott Fox or rather Faux, CNN and all AM radio shows. If people started to call in to all of the sponsors and advertisers who support these AM hosts, and we all boycotted the businesses that support these racist biggots, then AM radio would fall as it should have years ago. But Reagan made our economy into a service based economy so that his buddies could get rich.
The health care systems in other countries work great for they know that making a profit off of other peoples misfortune is fundamentally evil and wrong.
Again if we the people boycott and we all called in and forced our employers to cancell the health care policies today, then they would go bankrupt and we could start over again.
Fortune 500 companies would benefit greatly from not being forced into paying outrageous premiums. The reason that insurance is so high is that there is no preventative medicine in the USA. 80% of all health insurance is spent in the last two to three years of someones life and their lives could have been extended if they had been taught preventative medicine and the result would be less money to pay for doctors.
Our system is flawed and big pharma companies have the power cause we are too damn lazy to take it back.
The solution exists in the six inches of gray matter between your ears. However if it is closed it will not work and will never benefit anyone.
Companies in Canada pay on average 20% more in wages, especially American companies as they do not have to have a seperate staff in HR depts to deal with health insurance companies. Doctors would not have to have a seperate staff to deal with crooked criminal insurance companies who deny every claim and the system would become cheaper and more efficient. Today health care and insurance companies are ten times more inefficient than government, so the argument that government is slow is BS. I know some retired people that NEVER get their SS check late ever. But I know plenty of us that never get reimbursed by the insurance companies for their health care costs. The system they set up is for the person who is persistent and they know that most are too lazy to follow up and fight for their claim money.
Well said Captain America – your responses clearly are heart-felt and you have the best interests of the American people in mind.
You hit the nail on the head when you identified Reagan (and his henchmen) as the instigator of the problem. History will put this criminal in his rightful place and the president who did the most damage to the US. I was amused by the constant repetition of his (Holy) name by the Rep (rehensive) presidential candidates, especially Julie Ruliani, during their hilarious election campaigns… I couldn’t think of what they reminded me of until recently and then it came to me… the remind me of those NKorean Communist Party hacks intoning the (Holy) name of Kim Il over and over again.
And of course the solution is here: “The solution exists in the six inches of gray matter between your ears. However if it is closed it will not work and will never benefit anyone” but in being able to use this 6″ piece of gray real estate you find yourself, CA, in a very small minority of Americans indeed.
You only have to listen to the Hannity, O’Reilly and Limbaugh followers spouting their illogical hatred or read a page or two of Coulter-trash to see you are ahead of the posse.
Best of luck